EP 73

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God-fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Welcome back, everyone. This is one of those episodes that you will be sharing with your friends. Once again, Chris Hamilton knocks it out of the park by speaking to another real-life issue and that is how to discern the character of the man you are dating. This episode is not off limits to men; I think both women and men will find value in what is shared, so please feel free to share it with men in your life.

But speaking of value, if you are finding value in this podcast as a whole, I’ll invite you to show your appreciation by leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or by supporting us through Patreon with just five dollars per month. You will find that link in the show notes for this episode to help you get started on that and as always you are more than welcome to send questions and comments to my email: smilingatthefuturepodcast@gmail.com.

And now here again is Chris Hamilton.

Christi: Chris, it is always an honor to sit down with you and to pick your brain on real-life topics that myself and many other single women need wisdom on. Most of the listeners know who you are by now because you’re a regular contributor to this podcast. For those newbies tuning in, would you be so kind as to introduce yourself once again?

Chris: Yeah, sure. Thank you, Christi, for—I love that I’ve achieved regular status—what an honor it really is. My name is Chris Hamilton. I’m married to Ann. We attend Grace Church. I am a forensic accountant by day, and that’s most of what my life is consumed with. I am also an elder at Grace Community Church, and I have three daughters and seven grandchildren, which also keep us busy. So this is kind of a picture of who I am.

Christi: All right, and I love that you have so many daughters because this is definitely a kind of father-daughter type of a conversation topic, and so I know that you’ve walked through this road probably with your own daughters, and so excited to hear what you have to share.

But the topic today is on vetting a man, and we’ll go into maybe what that means. But I think it’s especially critical in our day and age to understand this and to go about this in the right way. Maybe a hundred years ago, you would just date and marry someone you grew up with, and was in your community, and everyone knew and you knew them and had seen the test of time with their life and character. But now, with technology, we’re just expanding and you can date someone from another state or another area, another church. And so, just kind of gathering information about who that person is and that process is something, maybe that, not all generations have had to go through. So I’d love for us to start out with what do we mean by vetting a man, and can you give some insight there?

Chris: Yeah. In many ways, the days of arranged marriages is not anything anybody looks back to and wishes was in our future. But on the other hand, there were some things that arranged marriages made easy. That was the choice of who to marry because that decision was made for you. We are in a culture where people get to make choices, and that’s both a blessing and it can also be a difficulty.

In the idea of vetting, I appreciate that you’re starting with that question because I think it’s important to define what that should mean or could mean. Because I’ve seen some people vet a young man and it is a process that’s kind of stifling and even extraordinarily difficult because there’s a father involved who believes he’s in charge of vetting, or there’s family or there’s friends. And in the middle of all of that is a young lady who’s looking for a husband, and she’s wondering how much do I pay attention to all of this?

So I’m going to call the vetting process for today, really, it’s an assistance from others with discernment. You’re looking to make a decision, and I don’t want to reduce the whole thing to a clinical decision. There are issues of the heart and that’s important. There are emotions involved, that’s important, but at the end of the day, you’re looking for somebody who’s a little bit independent and objective to help you with discernment and perspective.

I don’t think you should be giving authority to anybody. And I’m assuming I’m talking to an audience of older, independent young ladies. Although I’ve heard—I’ve had young men come up to me, Christi, and talk to me because I’ve listened to your podcast—that’s a maybe a secret, but there are young men that listen to it. But I’m talking to the young ladies. I don’t think you should hand the authority to kill a relationship to anybody, and that’s not what I’m going to be talking about in terms of vetting today.

The decision is yours who you will date, and the decision ultimately is yours in terms of whether you continue that relationship, and the decision is yours ultimately on whether you are going to commit the rest of your life to that young man. That is, I think, the proper way to view this. That also means the responsibility ultimately is yours.

I have had young ladies talk to us about young men, and we’re usually very careful to say, we’ll tell you what we think, but we don’t want to be quoted, and we don’t want to be used because all we’re doing is simply informing your thought process. If you make a decision, it should never be, “I am going to break up with you because Bill over there told me to,” or “my dad told me to,” or “I’m going to proceed in the relationship because other people have told me to.” I think maturity is that you understand you’re making these decisions, but you’re being very wise by getting some assistance and some objectivity in terms of your discernment and your perspective.

Christi: Really, really thankful how you broke that down, Chris, and I think that is very important. You did a whole episode back on decision-making and talked about how you did mention that, how any decisions we do own the responsibility for that ourselves, even when we seek counsel from other people.

So, how far is this something that is done in stages or layers, or how far into getting to know someone should a woman start asking those in her life to help her discern the character of the guy that she’s getting to know?

Chris: Yeah, I think I’m going to give you the theoretical answer and then a practical answer. The theoretical answer is that the vetting of a young man starts before maybe even that young man expresses any interest. In other words, a young lady who has potentially marriage in her future should be establishing relationships in her life and accountability in her life before the questions even come up.

I can only use myself as an example here. I had some men in my life who knew me very, very well and knew me well before I was involved in any dating relationships. When you have those—and they’re such a blessing, and you’re generally going to find that in the church, but also in family and friendships—but when you have those kinds of relationships in your life as just a part of normal life, dating a young man is just another part of life, and it’s just another part of your relationship with your mentors. Those who they may be older, they may not be, but people who you have developed a relationship with throughout the course of your life.

Think of it this way, when a crisis comes up in your life—and I’m not saying dating is a crisis, by the way, I’m using this as an illustration—but a crisis happens in your life and you and you dial 911, if you will, you phone a friend, you phone the people who already know the context of your life so that they don’t have to ask you a bunch of questions to get to know you to tell you what you need from them. And that’s the beauty of good friendships, mentorships, that when you make that 911 call, they already know all of that, and you get down to the important conversation much more quickly. I think that’s kind of an illustration of what I’m talking about. So even if you’re not dating, you prepare for dating, you prepare for marriage by building relationships in your life so that when this comes up, people have good context of who you are, and then they can look at be involved in the vetting process and be able to help you understand how your two lives could potentially fit together.

That’s theoretical. I’m sad to say, for most young ladies, they haven’t focused on it, and here they are. They’re interested in a young man and they need some help. And so practically, I would say that that process starts as soon as possible. You want to absorb that young man into your life if he isn’t already a part of your world. You want to avoid isolation. Isolation in that relationship is a very bad sign about kind of where that relationship is going, and it’s a really dangerous practice.

Young ladies make a mistake when a young man shows interest in them, and they are so involved in pursuing that relationship that they let the other relationships that pre-existed this fall away in their life. And that’s dangerous because that’s running away from any kind of vetting, any kind of assistance with discernment. So avoid isolation and as soon as possible, get others who know you well kind of looking in on the relationship. The practical ways to do that is go out to dinner together. If you’re in the same church together, obviously you attend Bible studies together, social events, and all of that is partly, one, you want to get to know him in those contexts. That’s a great way to do it, and, two, you want others to have the freedom to speak into it. So that’s initially as soon as possible, as much as you’re comfortable with.

Then, as the relationship develops, I think you should be really careful about ongoing vetting. The reason I say that—and I want to be really careful as I say this because it could be interpreted as I’m saying you move towards isolation, and that’s not what I’m saying—but what I want to convey is that as the relationship develops, you’re going to know far more context than anyone else. You’re going to have conversations where background information and heart issues and experiences and all of that is shared with each other, and necessarily, it should not be shared outside of the two of you.

So when people are speaking into a relationship, they don’t have all of that context that you’re going to have. That doesn’t mean you isolate, but it means that all of the outside counsel that is coming your way, whether it’s wanted or not, has to be filtered through the context that you have, and in a context that you can’t share with them. So generally that discernment could be pretty heavy in the beginning, and then it would be less and less, unless there’s a problem, of course. But long-term dependence on other people’s guidance, opinions, input can be dangerous because that then starts to look like other people are heavily influencing or making decisions for you that you should be making on your own, considering all the evidence, but ultimately it’s your decision. I think of a number of examples in our own experience and watching this in our own church that people start sniping at a relationship or a couple and they don’t know what they don’t know, but the couple knows, and the people that they are very close to know things that the rest of the people who want to help vet, if you will, just don’t know and can’t know.

Christi: That’s really helpful, Chris. One thing you said about just isolating, I think one other nuance there is, it’s just natural when you’re getting to know someone that you won’t have as much time to develop to other relationships as you prioritize a relationship. But that doesn’t mean that you completely cut everyone off. You should hopefully be still having conversations and catching up with people and letting them in on how things are going and the progression of a relationship. But I know I experienced that where I just didn’t have all the time in the world before to speak with everyone I wanted to. And so I think there’s kind of a natural season of like, where you prioritize that relationship. But it doesn’t mean you’re isolated completely, it might just look a little bit different during that dating phase.

Chris: Definitely, and as it moves to be more and more serious, those other relationships necessarily will fall away. But yeah, that’s where it’s good to have one or two people giving you a perspective on what that looks like.

Christi: Now for someone who doesn’t have believing family members and maybe a believing father or brothers, who can kind of help her walk through some of this, how would you go about seeking that out? You already spoke to some of that pre-establishing relationships in the church. I guess a follow-up question is, should the family be kind of the first line of defense in this area, or do you think it’s wise to have more objective people speaking into a relationship?

Chris: That’s good questions, and yeah, it is a touchy area. First of all, I want to say that an unbelieving family should never be disqualified from providing that counsel. It’s a good reminder that if your parents are not saved, you need to remember God appointed them your parents, he made them your parents. They know you. Your parents and your family know you and love you, probably they have a love that’s informed by knowledge more than anybody else on the face of the earth. I know there’s exceptions to this, of course, family is that’s a very difficult rail to touch, if you will. But in general, I think unless it is a genuine exception, you should assume that they know you and love you better than anybody, and therefore you. But I recognize that unsaved family is not going to be working from a biblical criteria or have biblical priorities, but that doesn’t invalidate their perspectives entirely.

There’s a second thing. I loved your question about the involvement of family and I would want to give you a warning about being the primary source of vetting or assistance with discernment or discerning a man’s character. What I’ve seen happen is sometimes a young lady will go to her family and she’ll express the good, the bad, and the ugly. She’ll make a full disclosure of his weaknesses and her concerns and early on in a relationship, her questions, and because she’s seeking discernment, she’s seeking some help. And what may be happening is that she’s giving a lot of that potentially negative information to a group of people that are already biased towards Jesus. As I say, they’re looking for Jesus, or somebody really close, to be your husband. You’re telling them potentially all kinds of reasons for them to think, “Oh my goodness, not this guy.”

I see it happen unfortunately a lot that a young lady does this and she sets up some in what I call inevitable counsel. If you give enough input to people who love you and care for you, and are not objective about you—they’re all for you—and you tell them all the bad, aren’t you really informing a predetermined counsel, which is he’s not good enough? And then the family starts to agitate against the relationship. I’ve seen it a couple times where the young lady will realize, “I said too much. I kind of poisoned the well a little bit.” So be very careful about that. I say that not to encourage anybody to isolate yourself from family, but to shepherd your family, to think about your parents and your family. You want to set this young man, who might be your husband someday, you want to set him up for success to some degree. I’m not saying to lie to family or to be deceptive, but be careful what you share and remember or think ahead and realize you’re bringing a young man into a group of relationships that pre-exists him, but will be his relationship for the rest of his life. So you want to help him out, you want to help your family out. Don’t set him up for failure. All of that is background about an unbelieving family and a warning about even a Christian family of expressing or disclosing too much.

Now, I’ll answer your question, Christi, if you don’t have family, the best answer to that question is the church. I can’t imagine a better place where you’re going to find people of like mind, people who love you, people who understand the biblical priorities and objectives here, who understand the realities of marriage. I’m thinking now of older couples who might help you filter or vet a young man. I think when you do that, going back to my previous answer, if you’ve developed the relationships of accountability and the Titus 2 of older women teaching younger women, if you have women like that in your life, that is the answer to the question. You go to those women, and they’re going to know already what the context of your life is, where it is you want to go, and you give them opportunity to be exposed to the relationship and to the young man. You need to let others observe and understand that the affirmation of others is not ultimate confirmation, but it is a source of some assurance. That feedback is only as valuable as it is based on relationship, and I’m talking about relationship between you and that person, not necessarily the young man in that person.

Christi: At the beginning here we talked about how online dating has created some, you know, interesting dynamics in this whole process of, you know, plucking someone from a whole different area, and how do you figure out who that person is when you’re completely outside of their world and their context? So for anyone who’s doing a long-distance relationship or maybe met online or through a setup, how would this process look different done through distance?

Chris: Yeah, it’s a hard question and it’s the world we live in. In some ways, it’s not terribly different from history. In some ways, there’s nothing new under the sun. I read stories of young men in the history of this country even who get married on their way to war, and they don’t really know each other. They get married and he goes off to war, comes back, or he goes off. I think of certain types of careers in the history of this country where men would go away for long times and come back, by long times, I’m talking about months at a time, and yet marriage stuck. I am not one who’s opposed to online dating at all. I do think the same safeguards and controls need to be in place in online dating that there are in non-online dating, and it comes down to this.

In the context of vetting, how does that look different from a distance? I think you have to remember one thing: that really truly you cannot discern a man’s character from a distance. It’s hard truth, but that is reality. Words are nice, but actions matter. I think you want to know—in the same way he’s going to want to know—how each of you reacts or acts when you’re tired, when you’re sick, when you’re unhappy, when you’re stressed. What does it look like when you’re happy, excited?

Just to give you some context to this, I think it’s really easy to get caught up in what somebody says, whether the spoken word or the written word. James 3:13, I love this verse. It says, “Who among you is wise and understanding?” I’m just going to stop there and think, wouldn’t any woman want to know a wise and understanding young man as a potential husband? Well, it goes on to define how do you know that? And it says—it doesn’t say listen to what he says, and he’s going to say some really pithy things, he’s going to have clever words to say—it doesn’t say that. It says, “Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior, his deeds, and the gentleness of wisdom.” In other words, we elevate wisdom, just as an example, in our culture based on what somebody says, and the Bible goes the exact opposite direction and says it’s actions, it’s not words.

In Titus 2, a well-known passage probably by anybody that’s listening to this podcast, Titus 2:6 says, “Likewise urge young men to be sensible.” I’m going to give you a description here of great husband material: he’s to be sensible. “In all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech, which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.” What’s really interesting in that verse and really throughout scripture, is that good deeds are associated with sound doctrine, purity in doctrine, and reputation matters. Somebody who is says there that he needs to be above reproach, that means basically reputation, a good reputation for a reason. In other words, nobody—somebody could say something negative about somebody, but it would never stick. Because I mean, people criticized Christ, he lived a perfect life, so people made lots of accusations against Christ, but they never stuck because he was above reproach.

So, all of that to say that a man’s actions matter. So I think at some point in an online dating, it has to be converted from a distance to a personal relationship where you can see him, talk to him, observe him in all kinds of different settings. Is that a must? No, I suppose not. I think there’s probably people out there who have gotten married. I’ve just read a story of a couple has been married 72 years, and they met at a dance at the church during WWII or something like that, and he asked her to marry him at the end of the evening, and two weeks later they’re married, and here they are 72 years later. Really, when you look at that, and in reading it, you have a couple who’s utterly completely devoted to each other and to marriage. In this case, they were devoted to Christ and the church, and that is ultimately what marriage is, and you can get through anything if you maintain that commitment.

I just think there has to be some observation, and that means time spent together, and that’s probably a hard to hear in a culture of social media. I think it’s highly dangerous to let your heart go to a guy who you haven’t seen in all kinds of environments. It’s where you can determine that he’s saved, and that his life demonstrates that that testimony, and that his doctrine is nailed down. Again, the doctrine—you can hear him talk about his doctrine, but Titus 2:6 and other places in scripture makes clear that doctrine matches life, and life matches doctrine. And that’s really what you want to be able to see.

In the run-up of distant relationship before, you know, there’s some decision made that you get in the same geographical area at least for some time, I think you can ask questions like ask about goals. In other words, where is he going in his life? Maybe this will be helpful. I tell a lot of young ladies this, but when you hear a young man talk—and I say this to young men also—that women fall in love with a vision, and with the direction, and with the dream, if you will, although I’m about to talk about that, that women are—young ladies are—as taken with that as with physical appearance or whatever. In other words, if a young man is going somewhere, and a young lady can buy into that direction, that is the basis of a very strong relationship.

So you want to know, where is he going? What are his goals? The discernment of is he telling you what his goals are? Is he telling you his dreams, meaning he may or may not be going this direction, really comes down to what are his actions again? What is he doing? What is his plan?

So if I have the goal to play in the NBA, anybody that knows me knows I’m never going to be playing in the NBA. I can tell you that’s my goal, but if you kind of explore that, and you understand how old I am, I have no plan, and I’m not taking any actions that will get me into the NBA, you know, that’s a dream. If I tell you I want to be a doctor someday, and I have not finished my degree, I’m not even working towards a degree, I’m not in medical school, that’s not a goal, that’s a dream. But if I as a young man layout, I’m wrapping up my degree, got my applications into these medical schools, this is the kind of medicine I want to do, this is the work I’m doing now to learn that, now doesn’t sound so much like a dream. That sounds more like a goal, and the goal may not happen, but at least he is moving in a direction.

My warning to young ladies is don’t fall in love with a dream, and so many times in online relationships, that’s really what you’re talking about. You need to get past the public persona, the pictures, the social media presence, and kind of explore where he’s going and why he’s going there. Does he live with a purpose, and tell him where he’s at on that trajectory?

Christi: So, so good, Chris. I think as women, we are looking to be a helpmate to someone. If we can see their direction where they’re going, we can say, “I can sign up for that. I can be a helper to him. I want to join forces with him and go in that direction.” So it is really helpful when that is clear, or at least there’s steps, clear steps in that direction, like you said with goals.

I also really appreciated how you brought up words as not being the most important thing and how it is actions that matter. I think with words, they can stir up a lot of emotion, and so that can be tricky if he’s saying a lot of sweet, wonderful, kind things, and your heart can get really sucked in really fast. But yeah, their lifestyle is going to show what they truly believe, and words are sweet and wonderful, but if it’s not backed up by actions and a life that proves the genuineness of those words and the heart behind that, yeah, it’s going to be empty at the end of the day.

So how do we in this whole process—how do we know we want to extend grace, and we want to understand no one is perfect, we’re not perfect—but we also are trying to exercise discernment. So how do we balance all of those things in this process?

Chris: Big question, and I’ll give it my best shot. I really think outside of specific characteristics or goals, there’s two big things, I think, that a young lady is looking for, and it doesn’t really have anything to do with checking off boxes for the young man, nor are either of these subject to pride. In other words, “I need a husband that looks like this and acts like this and has a net worth like that.” All of that is secondary to these two aspects, and that is trust and respect. I really think that as you vet a young man and as you seek other people’s help in that process, these are the two things you’re looking for: Do you trust him? Can you trust him? And do you respect him?

The reason I say that is—and by the way, you notice I didn’t say love him. My assumption is that that’s the most difficult thing to assess maybe, and that’s an issue of the heart, and there’s no way I can help you with that. If a young lady, whether it’s my daughter or one of her friends or somebody from church she’s talking to us, when they talk about being in love with somebody, I get that. I don’t have any ability to move that needle, but we can talk about, “Do you trust him, and can you respect him?”

Ephesians 5, that great passage, it starts in verse 25 talking to husbands about loving their wife. I think it says four times in the passage that husbands are to love their wives. I think there’s a reason for that. I think in a marriage relationship that is the difficulty of men loving their wife as Christ loves the church, and so much time is spent in that passage, and words, and it’s a powerful passage about that. At the tail end of that passage, verse 33, it says, “Nevertheless, let each individual among you love his own wife as himself.” There it is again. And then this little phrase: “And the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.” It seems like that is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Paul had to tell us to love our wife four times because he knew he was talking to men and we’re a little slower, but at the tail end, it’s a powerful statement. He says to the wife, “See to it that you respect your husband.” What that tells me is love isn’t the issue most often, it is that.

So the trust and respect are the two things. Respect, by the way, means fear, really. It’s a willingness and a desire to submit to the role of her husband. There’s so much that’s said about that, starting back in Genesis 2 and 3. I assume that your listeners have heard that a lot about what that means and what that looks like.

I want to spend a minute on trust. I think you want to trust a couple things. One, that he’s a believer in Jesus Christ. I cannot imagine willingly and volunteering to be married to someone who’s not a believer. If you are a believer, you’re begging for a difficult life. It’s in the Bible: “Don’t be bound together with unbelievers.” It couldn’t be more clear. There’s the passage in 1st Peter talking to women about being married to men who don’t love the Lord. You need to have trust that he’s a believer in Jesus Christ.

I think there’s practical steps you can take. We’ve talked about this, asking him about the gospel, giving his testimony, looking at his life. Does his life demonstrate the fruit of the spirit? If you put two sinners together who love the Lord and they get married, I believe that marriage can survive and actually be a tremendous blessing. Most everything else that young ladies put on their criteria, their checklist, if you will, I understand that. If you trust that he’s a believer and it turns out he is a believer, you’re in for a blessed life because you’re in a relationship that’s ordained by God, blessed by God, and the icing on the cake is that you both love Jesus Christ and you’re committed to honoring Christ in everything.

That means I think you need to trust that he’s committed to the role of a husband and a father. Does he understand and will he pursue his role as a provider, a leader, and a protector? Because not because that’s what you want, but because that is how his Creator has designed him, and he understands that. You cannot know all of that when you walk down the aisle, there’s no way, but you do need to come to trust that to some degree. He trusts God, and you trust him.

I’ve often said about my own wedding, I know now that I didn’t know Ann very well when we got married. The tremendous blessing in life is everything I’ve learned since that day has been a tremendous surprise in a good way. And it’s because she loves the Lord. She loves the Lord more than she loves me. But there had to be a place in our relationship that she trusted that I was a believer in Jesus Christ. I needed to get to the place where I trusted that was true in her life, and really everything piles after that.

I talked to Ann before meeting with you, Christi, and asked her this question, and she said something pretty profound, so I need to credit her. She said this: Young ladies need to remember that the guy you’re looking at is incomplete. That’s how Christ defines it. That’s how it’s defined in Genesis, that a man needs a helper. The implication of that—most guys are really uncomfortable with this, our culture certainly is—is a recognition that as a young single guy, I was incomplete. If I was all that, I wouldn’t need a wife. And that’s the perspective that Ann wanted and conveyed to me: “If he didn’t need you, he wouldn’t need you.” So just keep that in mind as you’re exercising discernment and looking at what matters in a relationship, that he’s not going to be perfect, and that he actually is, by God’s design, going to be an imperfect and incomplete in some significant ways, and he needs you, he needs somebody.

Ann also said to me that has to be balanced with “You can’t fix him.” So you can’t go down the aisle saying, “He’s incomplete in this, this, this, and this, and boy, am I going to fix him.” Maybe you will, maybe you won’t. But what matters is do you trust him? You trust his profession of faith in Jesus Christ and his commitment to live in accordance with that. And can you respect him, and that encompasses, can you follow his leadership and submit to his role as a husband?

I think as a relationship progresses, those should be growing in your heart towards this man. The more you get to know him, the more you peel back the layers, the more you see how he handles the relationship and helps you both walk through that and handles challenges and difficulties, your respect and trust for him should just be growing and growing. That I think just grows your like of him as well. I think it informs your love for him eventually, that, you know, love is not just an emotion, it is a decision, and when you know you can trust and respect him, it’s much easier to make that decision that I’m going to love him even in times when he’s not real lovable. And when he loves you and cares for you and you’re not lovable, that makes you appreciate him more too. So, yes, it adds to your ability to trust.

Christi: Yeah, I had someone tell me once that women are just they’re looking for someone they can feel safe with, and I think that’s an element of trust, that you trust their judgment, their discernment, their character, and so you feel safe with them. But only God truly knows the heart. Like you said, even this is still a step of faith.

But are there any questions that you would recommend that a lady could ask a man that she’s dating that just help give insight into who he is in his heart and if he’s truly a believer?

Chris: You know, there was a young lady I cared a lot about, and she was seeing a young man, and a young man I didn’t know much about, but she asked me to kind of check him out, and he was willing. So we went and had dinner, and as dinner progressed, at the appropriate time, I eventually asked him, “Who is Jesus Christ?” And his reply was a complete dud. He had no idea who Jesus Christ was. Dinner turned into presenting the gospel, and then going back to this young lady and saying, “Maybe slow down. You know, let’s let’s see what you’ve got here.”

I think that’s a fantastic question, and it’s not a first date question necessarily, I guess. But can he define who Jesus Christ is? Can he explain the gospel? I’m not talking about it has to be a seminary graduate or a pastor or an academic knowledge of the gospel. The potential, you know, maybe ask his testimony. It’s not just one question, but it’s exploring who Jesus is and what Jesus has done in his life, and in relationships around him, and his worldview, and is it filtered through scripture? And I’m not again, I don’t want to advocate somebody who has a systematic theology rolling around in his head all the time. It’s perspective on current events and situations. How does he process that in light of the gospel and the and the truth of who Jesus Christ is?

I think you want to ask him about church. What’s his church history? What does he think of the church? What’s his future in the church? How important is the church to him? Does he love the church? And I say that again, I think we’ve all experienced the last couple of years a tremendous shift in this country, and it’s probably nothing like what’s coming in terms of politics and culture. There’s just a lot of change afoot, but what doesn’t change is our relationship with Jesus Christ, and our command, and even desire to be involved in local church. As you consider dating someone who you might marry, who then you might have children with, it would be good for you to consider and know at least at this point, do you trust that he loves the church?

We’ve talked about his goals. Some other questions, for whatever these are worth: “Tell me about your best friends, all the way back. Who are your best friends when you were younger? How about college? How about now?” I think scripture makes pretty clear you know somebody by who their associates are, who the influences are in their life. Ask him, “Who’s discipled you? Who’s mentored you? Who are the influences on your life?” I guess really you’re trying to determine Psalm 15:4, in that great psalm that talks about men and women with integrity. One of the ways that a person of integrity is defined is that someone “in whose eyes a reprobate is despised, but who honors those who fear the Lord.” So Psalm 15:4 is a great platform to explore people, ask questions about people in his life, and get a sense of who his heroes are and does he despise a reprobate?

Talk about whether discipleship has played a role in his life. I think that’s so important because when you get into marriage and there’s difficulties, what is his response to difficulty? Who does he talk to? How does he process difficulty? Does he go in a dark room and sit there for a long time—I’m being silly to illustrate an extreme here—or does he go and talk to men and get wisdom? Does, and I guess what you’re trying to determine is, does he live by Proverbs 23:23 where you “buy truth and do not sell it; get wisdom, instruction and understanding”? Does he live with the humility of understanding that he doesn’t know it all? I guess you really want him to display that he understands his weaknesses.

Finally, another set of questions is listen carefully as he talks about his family. We already mentioned this, but family is a hot-button. It can be a wonderful, beautiful story, and sometimes it’s a really, really kind of ugly story of family background. Does he demonstrate patience, grace, gentleness, humility, as he talks about whatever that is, or is it anger, pride, bitterness, more that vein? Again, that’s not a reason to throw a young man to the side, but it is very enlightening in the context of everything else. So there’s a whole bunch of questions that maybe somebody can ask to give insight into what’s going on in a man’s heart.

Christi: Yeah, those are great. I heard someone also say hear how he talks about his job and his boss. Has he complained? Does he respect them? Is he humble? I think that’s something that you can see there as their humility, if he’s submissive to the authorities in his life, and you would see that too, if he has discipleship in his life, if he’s seeking that out and putting himself under the counsel of somebody else and willing to heed that counsel.

You brought up earlier about being sensible and sound-minded in the passages in Titus that bring that out. I’m actually going to be doing a whole episode coming up on that topic, so excited about that. But in a relationship can be an especially tricky time to exercise those character traits. So how would you encourage the ladies to stay sound-minded in a relationship when there’s all those emotions swirling?

Chris: I’ll keep this simple since you’re going to be doing a series. I won’t say too much here, but I’ll say it this way: Let what you know dictate how you feel and what you think. Living on emotions reverses that: how you feel dictates what you think and what you think you know. In other words, your emotions inform what you know.

When I say let what you know dictate how you feel and what you think, what I’m talking about is what you know is the purpose of marriage. What your goals are: you want to be like Christ, you know the gospel, you know that God has designed you and your goal in life is to be a wife and a mom and a keeper of the home. You keep that up front. You keep Romans 8:1 in the front of your mind, that for those who are saved there is now no condemnation in Christ Jesus. It’s important that you remember that. Ephesians 1, all the things that Christ has done for you. You let all—so I could keep going and going and going—you let those things, what you know, where you be reminded of what you know. And that of course means you’re involved in church, you have other people who are holding you accountable to remember what you know, you’re in the word, all of that, let that dictate how you feel and what you think.

It is not a bad thing to be involved in the emotions of love and all of that leading up to marriage. It’s a wonderful and a beautiful time and it’s fun. But I do understand the question and would just encourage that the pattern of stability and self-control probably needs to be a pattern that exists before dating starts. The excitement and the uncertainty of dating simply exposes whether that sensibility and that sound-mindedness and that stability is there. That’s why dating and marriage is a sanctifying process. It doesn’t create bad things, it simply exposes whether it’s already there. It doesn’t create good things—I’m talking about character here—it simply exposes those good things in your character. So none of it should blow a hole in the side of your boat, but there should be a sensitivity to what is being exposed of my character here. Some of that you might not be real happy about, but that’s life and that’s the process of sanctification.

I guess the way to assure stability and sound-mindedness in a relationship is to develop these character qualities now, and when you get into a relationship, one of the things your eventual husband will tell you is that, “I fell in love with you because you are a sensible, sound-minded person.”

Christi: Yeah, such good things to strive for. Difficult in the moment, but you know, having those people in your life to who can speak truth to you when you’re in the emotions of a situation or of a relationship can be critical as well. Yeah, relationships do expose sin and that is humbling, and it’s gracious of the Lord to reveal that. Like you said, it’s just revealing what’s there, it’s not creating that, and so we can use those opportunities to grow in our sanctification.

But yeah, how do we just stay humble in this whole vetting process and not assume in our hearts that we deserve the perfect man? Like you said, we’re not looking for Jesus Christ because he’s ascended to the Father’s right hand. But how do we go about this process in a humble way and not view ourselves more highly than we ought?

Chris: Well, it starts really before dating. Same with the sensibility and sound-mindedness, stability, self-control, throw humility in there. All of this is something that exists before dating in some measure. The beautiful thing, one of the gifts of salvation, is that we get the Holy Spirit. Galatians 5 says that the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace. There’s that stability, that self-control. When you have peace, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control, all of that is evidence of any benefit of, I would say, of being a believer, that the Holy Spirit in us can produce this. It’s the only way it can be produced, by the way. So that humility is understanding and recognizing your dependence on Christ for all of that. Dating will not make you humble. It will expose whether you are humble or not, and you deal with that as it comes.

I think also it’s a good reminder. Humility is based on who God is, it’s not based on our weaknesses or circumstances. So often when we talk about humility, we’re really quick to start talking about how we need more sanctification and I wish I didn’t do this and I wish I wasn’t like that and I wish my character was stronger here, therefore I’m humble. That’s all important, but the starting place is that our humility is based on who God is and who we are in comparison to God. So a proper view of God necessarily results in a humble spirit. So if this is an issue for somebody in the vetting process, they have forgotten who God is, they have forgotten their weaknesses before God. When you realize that, and I think of Colossians 3 in the context of the inability to forgive somebody, then you’ve forgotten how much you’ve been forgiven. It’s the same principle. So a proper view of God produces a humble spirit, and our weaknesses and our frailties just simply add on to that humility.

I think we have to have the humility going into all of this to understand that that young man you’re pursuing and the goal you have of being married, should the Lord answer that prayer, you will get a husband who will compensate for your weaknesses, and that takes some humility to recognize and maybe roll that back to the dating relationship. It could very well be that that young man, as you grow older and he becomes an old man by your side, he has over all those years compensated for your weaknesses, and it’s the beauty of marriage that together you can be more than you ever would have been apart, and it takes humility to recognize that, and it takes faith to act on that too, by the way, and that goes back to the trust and the prayer that.

I definitely had this sense 35 years ago when Ann and I got married, I definitely believe that I would be a better man with Ann that I ever could be without her. And there is a humility in that that I would encourage the young ladies listening to this, that that’s your goal, is to find a man who is going to make you better than you are now, by God’s grace. And again, remember he’s incomplete. The beauty of marriage is great joy, a lot of fun, and when you have developed a humility to submit to a process, to a relationship, and to the design of the family—you know, we don’t know all of that, God knows all of it and maybe we’ll know it someday—but you will be a better person than you are today because of it.

Christi: Well, that’s the perfect note to close out this discussion. Thank you so much, Chris, for your fatherly wisdom, and I know that this is going to be a huge blessing to the ladies and or the few gentlemen that will tune into it as well. So, I appreciate your time and for sharing your heart and your perspective and it was very beneficial to me and to my heart tonight. So I just want to thank you for that.