EP 76

welcome to the smiling at the future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on, femininity homemaking, finances relationships, and singleness from the God-fearing men and women in my life, hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hello everyone. I want to start out today with the announcement that we are taking a break for the summer, but will be back again in August. And if you’re newer to the podcast, this would be a great time for you to browse our archives. We have over seventy five episodes now ranging all different topics and if there’s a topic that you would love to hear wisdom on but you don’t see it yet in our episode list, please reach out and send me an email or message on Instagram. I love getting suggestions. And I also just love to hear from you. So you can send those to smiling at the future podcast at gmail.com.

Today’s episode is with Pastor Chris, Mueller of Marietta Bible Church and he is discussing the topic of sensibility with me and what this character quality which is emphasized in the book of Titus looks like practically lived out in different areas of our life from dating relationships to emotions. So here is our conversation.

Well, good morning, Chris. I’m sitting here thinking. I can’t believe I have the honor of speaking with Chris Mueller. So, thank you so much for taking the time to discuss the topic of sensibility with me today. But before we dive into that, would you give us a brief introduction of who you are, and where God has you in life and Ministry?

Well, thank you Christi. It’s a privilege to be here, and I have such a great long commitment to the Those of the grace church family. And so it’s an honor to be able to just talk over these things with you.

My background is pretty simple. I was saved at 18 and by 22. I was hired at Grace Community Church as the first outside higher and the junior high pasture and they thought well we we couldn’t find anybody loopy enough to do it. So they thought well they found me and and put me in that role and and I Love that time. That decade that I was there in 1979 to 1989. By the time I was done. I was John’s personal assistant and really friend and we have maintained that friendship since that time and it’s been really an honor and a privilege to really be connected to the family at Grace Community Church.

So all that to say the Lord has allowed me to be in pastoral Ministry for many many years. And the last 17 years I have been In the pastor teacher at Faith, Bible Church, and Marietta. And right now, my wife and I we have two sons who are grown and married and three grandsons, and we continue to just serve the Lord as best we can even in our older age. Now, our seasoned part of our life and so we’re enjoying just teaching the word training men. We have a training center for laymen that we work through anywhere from 20 to. 40 men every two years in a three-year process. We have a, an extension of the Masters Seminary at our church. And so we’re teaching seminary classes as well and just have an incredible eldership of men who function as father’s over the flock and we have a delightful church family that is just filled with people who love one another and care for one another and serve their gifts. And we really do enjoy seeing people Come to know Christ and people being really strengthened in their faith. Praise God for that.

Well if the any of the listeners are looking for a church home in your area, then I’ll go ahead and link your Church’s website in the show notes and they can go check that out.

You mentioned that you were in the junior, high Ministry at Grace and eventually I think you found your way to the college Ministry.

Yeah. They demoted me. Yeah, so they said you know that’s you got to work with these people. It was pretty pretty much in a really rough place. The College Ministry when I took over. And so we didn’t quite know what God would do. And God just did amazing things. It was just unbelievable.

So I think you’re leading up to the fact that we taught a series. I saw the young men and the young women struggling in their understanding of what it means to be a Christian and then what sanctification was and then really what it meant to be a part of a local church. And then really miss understanding what it means to be a man and a woman. And so we had lots of really weird perspectives and things like that and I was wondering what to do. And in my personal studies, I had walkthrough Titus Chapter 2 and he seemed very direct and very clear, we did a series that just exploded. I couldn’t believe it wasn’t, you know, we’re trying to be creative. We were just trying to me. A need as an equip ER to see how we could establish the young men and women in their, you know, in their faith. And then also in their understanding of the role and design of men and the role in design of women. Anyway, it exploded, we went, you know, at that point from, but 225 to 450 to 500 and went from there, it was crazy. And along with a whole team of men that we established Campus Ministries. Etc. We were seeing a lot of people No Christ. But it was also a really a very unique time. Really stabilized our men to R actually pursue what it means to be a servant leader, a Godly leader. A man who is humble and gracious, but biblical and not afraid to initiate biblical Direction. And for our gals, to come alongside support them, it’d be a help to them and a function, really in the way that God designed marriage has a And and also relationships to be. So it was really a really sweet time.

I’m going to link those messages to in our show notes for the listeners. I believe you gave ten messages for men and ten for women on all the different qualities. And that Titus Chapter Titus 2 on. What does it mean to be a godly man, and a Godly woman, and you have a longevity of that series. That was preached. I think, originally back in, I want to say 1985 somewhere around there. 85 and the series never went away. And so, the tapes were flying everywhere and then when we went digital, we were kept being asked for them. No matter where I went. And so, finally out of desperation, we posted them and we call them vintage sermons now on our website. But they are still there and people still ask for them and they’ve been compiled into books to.

I have both of them on my desk right now that are highlighted and underlined and and I’m going to link those two for the listeners if they want to check those out and those just came out in the last year, I want to say yeah I think so about a year now that one of the old collegians grew up and became a publisher and his son was struggling. His Collegiate son with the role of a man and he came home, really excited one day and told his dad. He found this series and he had been listening to it and it was really helping him and his dad said, what was it? And he goes well, it was The main beam and let the women be women. And his dad said, well I was there, you know, it even know. And so Gary Kim, who’s the 316 publisher, he is an old friend and he just came to me at one of the shepherd’s conferences. And said, Chris would you be willing to write these? He asked me and I said, well, you sure you want to do that and he said, yes, you know, I really want to it’s an investment for a publisher to do that kind of stuff. And I got nervous for him and because I I know me. And so, anyway, we went through that process, I learned a lot. But yeah, the, the books came out and, and sometimes I read them and I like, man, that’s a, that’s a lot better than what I would say. So I don’t know how that worked out, but yeah, they’re they’re really helpful and discipleship. They’re really helpful and just understanding and yeah, in a multiple fronts. So, anyway, I’m grateful for them.

Well, wonderful, they’ve been a blessing to me and I’m excited to hear the impact of just others. Hanging out about it and and being blessed by the truth in God’s word. But there’s one chapter in each book and one quality specifically, that is just all over the book of Titus and that is sensibility. So that’s what I’ve been convicted. So much recently on this and just really thought, you know, this is a, a subject that is just missing in society. Right now being a saint and minded thinking people is just, I mean, we were just told follow your heart, follow your emotions, don’t think do. It’s what you feel is, right? And so I feel like we need to have a better grasp as Christians of why God put this in his word for us to be growing. And but before we launch into the questions, can you just help us understand from scripture? What is this quality of sensibility?

Yeah. He is really on a practical level defined biblically, as you think. Before you act, you think before you speak. That’s a practical way in which to describe it. It actually comes from the roots root words. That would indicate your be, you’re in your right mind, you’re a thinking person. There’s a there’s an element of calmness where you’re planning not reacting to situations and There’s an element of Common Sense and this would come out of multiple passages were sensible is used and its root form as well as in its form that it’s used in Titus. It’s the most repeated quality in Titus apart from manifestation of good works. It’s the quality of sensibility that really Paul is hammering Titus to hammer into the cretans because they lived in a very senseless Society. I mean, we know that from what is it? Titus Chapter 1, I think it’s pretty clear what he says, it’s in 12. Let’s see, one of themselves a profit of their own a cretans are always Liars. Evil beasts lazy gluttons. This testimony is true for this reason, reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith. Not paying attention to Jewish missing Commandments of men who turn away from the truth. So in that kind of society, they were lacking self control and their diet. And they’re thinking in their behavior was wild and beastly. And so that’s what Paul is describing here and Sensibility was absolutely a reaction in a good way, in a Biblical way to living in that kind of world, which is exactly where we live today. What you said as far as you know, do what you want? Follow your heart. You know, the Inner Man, the inner person, it’s like a some sort of psychological excuse to have an inner Journey. So You could live selfishly, and so in response to that, we need to be living for the Lord honoring him. We have a heart. Now, as we’re born again, that wants to please him wants to do what he wants us to do and then sensibility would be. Then the expression of that, the expression of acting that out or planning that out, it’s like you’re planning your day. How will I react in these kind of situations? How will I initiate where a Biblical character or A quality or making sure that I’m filled with the spirit. At this particular point in time at work, or at school, I’m initiating biblical response. And I’m thinking that through, that’s sensible, there’s an element of self-control to it for sure. And we know that’s part of the fruit of the spirit, it’s not an emotion. It’s definitely, you know, the warning of Proverbs 3:5 and 6 we always Hang on to that verse trust the Lord, you know, but we forget he says don’t lean on your own understanding. So what we’re saying and Sensibility, as I my want to do things the way that the Lord wants me to do them. I want to initiate biblical response and I’m thinking that through, it has an idea of safety to it, wisdom to it. My wife and I love to apply sensibility by asking. Is it good or better or best and we’re always trying to live the best. What would best honor Christ? What would best pleased him and we try to live by the Mantra that just because you’re allowed to do something. Biblically doesn’t mean you should do it and there’s an element of sensibility and that where you’re really thinking through just because I can do it doesn’t mean I should do it. There’s an element of how can I best represent Christ be his Ambassador, be his representative. And and not to be, you know, otherworldly in such a way that you’re not practical. And, and just you’re finding ways in which to dialogue with people to interact with people in a way that would really actually best honor him and there’s an element to just realism that is in sensibility. You’re looking at the world, through the lens of God’s word, the lens of Theology and you’re hoping that it’s going to work out in a way that would really Use him and there’s so many so much need for wisdom. It’s almost as if you’re saying, I want to live by wisdom, I want to live by his word and really I think that sensibility and multiple different facets of looking at it and I appreciate you bringing out some of those synonyms as well and helping us understand it from those different perspectives.

So my next question we kind of you kind of already went down this path a little bit but why is the way you think important for Your spiritual life.

Well, I think most Christians today are saying well I want to live by the word. I want to be dependent upon the spirit of God. Obviously Romans 6:17 tells us that we have a heart that wants to obey Christ that’s indicative of a Christian. It’s not a super Christian, it’s not a more mature. Christian, it’s a Christian. If you are born again you have a heart that wants to obey. So you want to pursue even when you fail to even when you’re pulling your face, you’re still laying there going but Still want to please Christ. So with that kind of heart, then taking the next step would be to being sensible and that sense of being goal-oriented like how can I best accomplish God’s will for my life? I mean there’s a an expression that is given in Acts chapter 2, excuse me, Ephesians 2:10 where he says God has prepared good works beforehand that you should walk in them. So Each one of us has a unique contribution to put Christ on display, and it’s different than everybody else’s and switch makes the value of every Christian super high because no one can put Christ on display like you and no one could put Christ on display like me. And yet we’re supposed to put Christ on display. Now, most of that comes 90% of that comes from just walking in obedience to the word of God. But about, you know, ten to twenty percent is the unique contribution that we make that God has already. Prepare, he’s already established that. When he saved us we were going to find that expression and and really living in such a way where you’re you’re working towards that your your goal oriented, you have a game plan you’re not like Christopher Columbus who you know, when he went to the promised land so to speak, you know, and found America. He didn’t know where he was going when he got there. He didn’t know where he was and when he got back he didn’t know where he’d been and we Don’t want to be that way. We want to be believers. Who really are know why we’re here and, and trying to accomplish exactly what he wants us to accomplish. So if you don’t set, measured goals achievable goals, then you’re really not going to go anywhere. The same adage is, you know, when you, you know, aim at nothing, you hit it every time. But if you aim at a Target, then that’s where you’re trying to accomplish what you could for the Lord’s. Worry, so you’re living by God’s character, living by the word of God. You’re seeking to Moment by moment the independent obedience. So, obviously, if you’re not in the spirit, you’re in the flesh. So you want to be filled with the spirit, depending on him, relying on him. To work through you. It is no longer I who live but Christ lives in me. And through that you’re sitting measurable goals. I want to be in the word, I want to be in prayer. I want to be developing these relationships. Oops, A discipleship relationships with people investing into me and me investing into other people. I want to practice run, you know, a sense of real sensitivity to sin, but at the same time pursuing, Christ’s character, we don’t want to just be putting out fires in our life. We want to be pursuing service giving ourselves away because as we do, then there’s less and less struggle with some of these sinful issues that drag us down. So I always tell Collegian in particular, you know, that, if your Stealing at work at that point, you’re really not going to know whether you should ask for a raise because you’re not in God’s will at that point, you know? Or if you’re cheating on an exam. So you want to be walking in obedience and and dealing with sin and living by repentance and having a heart that’s relying on him. It’s sadly as a college Pastor, there were multiple times where students were sleeping together and saying, well should we get married and so you’re not a Nice to know. You know, you know there needs to be a an over arching level of proven obedience for a while there to establish that you’re really do know, God’s Will and would know that for your potential spouse. I know that’s a hard lesson but it’s one that if you’re living currently in sin, you’re really not going to know his will you’re really not going to understand that? So a sensible person is going to be dealing with sin all the time and always trying to pursue Christ. Stan and honor him, you know as you therefore have received Christ Jesus so walk in him. So you want to be that individual. That’s accomplishing that. So the only way that you can actually actually see sensibility lived out is to be Independence, be in Reliance be relying on God’s word. And the only way that you’ll find wisdom, Express through your life is to then pursue that sensible expression of manifesting Christ in every way you You can that’s powerful and I appreciate you sharing that and one of the quotes from your book that I appreciated, you said, the sensible woman is a thinking woman, she is morally alert. So, you are as you’re saying, you’re doing things walking in the spirit, wanting to please an honor Christ, and to stay away from sin in your life.

Yeah. You’ll see. As you interact with people, you know, you’ll find shortcomings on your part or weak character, weaknesses, and, and those are the things Say Okay, Lord, let’s make some progress on this, but you’ll also find strengths giftedness and different areas of your life that you seem to be able to make contribution to others and you want to enhance those and, and so measurable goals. Both in positive, the positive aspect of pursuit in sanctification and fleeing in sanctification, both elements. And then, you know, let’s be honest until we walk through that door to Heaven. We’re going to be battling with sin and there’s a big difference between Tween Defiance in and undefined sin or intentional sin and unintentional sin and you find yourself intentional. Send, that’s when you’re going to mess up your understanding of God’s will, but all of us are battling all the time in our thoughts and our motives Etc. So we don’t want to lay out some sort of perfectionistic, kind of, I don’t want to do that. Some sort of idea that you can achieve, you know, some level of spirituality over this, you’re constantly going to be dealing with this until you again are in his Isn’t so the issue is not to get discouraged by that, but to use that as a motivation to become more like Christ in every area of your life, and to continue to ask him to sanctify, you to change you and goals, sensible, sensibility would be, I’m going to express goals to achieve that. I’m going to think through how to pursue that, I’m not going to just sit passively and go, well, it’ll happen. I’ll sit under the word. I’ll get convicted, that’s great. I’m going to pursue I’m going to read books, I’m going to get discipled. I’m going to, you know, Senator good teaching. I’m going to express, you know, Avail myself of the means of Grace in order to accomplish that I’m intentional. It’s intentional goal, setting so sensible. Yeah.

Well, the sensibility as we already said, it’s a huge topic. It overreaches every area of life, but one of the areas that I wanted to ask you about and you bring out in your book and it’s applicable because a lot of the listeners to this podcast are Single. But Desiring, marriage. So can you give us just some ideas of what does sensibility look like played out in a dating relationship?

That’s great question, dating courtship online stuff. Let’s just say it’s difficult, it’s frustrating. Part of it, is that we, as Believers, when, when we’re born again, we begin to adopt a very high view of marriage. And we have rejected the the Hook-Up culture but you have to realize that nothing is more cutting difficult struggle than having two centers in a close relationship with no practice. So you know it’s it’s no matter how Godly you are, there’s going to be difficulties and that’s part of the challenge of it and The Wonder of it and the necessity of it, I try to teach my church, you know, that That relationships are necessary and relationships are actually the probably the one of the number one signs of your maturity. And so if you can maintain relationship and understand, you know how to not be hurt, not be the victim. Not not walk around, you know, you offended me. But but actually just to recognize that most of our mess-ups in relationships or unintentional. Now, some are and some are really, really dumb, but Many of them are unintentional and know how to learn to forgive to overlook and there’s a wonderful verse in 1st. Peter 4:8 love covers a multitude of sins and he’s not diminishing. The reality of sin or the importance of dealing with sin or confession of sin and repentance. But what he’s saying is that it’s very common and you know, if you can get over it, get over it. You know, don’t go around having to confront everybody. So, the issue is that if you understand the loving element of that, That and then when you’re you know, you see somebody who’s damaging relationships or they’re damaging themselves with sin or their intentional in their sinfulness or defiant. So to speak as numbers 15 would talk about it. Then then you’ve got address it. You know, you got to come to them and I usually tell them, you know, Express three ways that you’re sitting before you would even confront them, you know, so that you you would talk about this, this is something that we’re involved in, you know, that we’re all doing it. So, but that’s kind of the Tone. A little bit of understanding sanctification, understanding our dealings with sin, then that helps you to understand relationships and how you can love somebody that’s very imperfect and is going to be battling with sin their entire life.

But Christians have to think differently about relationships and that term because the Bible emphasizes character over then appearance, not over appearance but then and so it would start with character and and really what you’re looking for. For, if you’re going to be sensible, is what Jesus would always say, which is fruit, you’re looking for the manifestation of Christ through that person that’s fruit. And really, I would tell people fruit over time, not a guy who says, well, I’m going to go on a short-term team. Oh, he must be a Godly guy and like, nah. Nah, nah, let’s see how he deals with his parents and with faithful Ministry for a year. And how is he sharing the A school and discipling. And how is he manifested? His role. Is he a domineering, you know, guy or is he? Someone who understands what true leadership is? I try to help gals to Think Through, you know, don’t don’t, don’t allow your emotions to lead in this and, and allow your mind, that would be a sensible mind to say, well, is he discipling anyone? Because if he is discipling, anyone then that means he’s parenting them. There’s no, there’s no term. In the New Testament for parent, there’s it’s just discipleship, you’re investing in an intentional relationship into your children, so that they would either come to Christ or become like Christ. They are get saved and Sanctified. That’s what discipleship is. And you if you can start that process without, you know, being a parent, so to speak, then you’re showing that you can parent. And then someone who’s involved in Ministry that they’re learning their giftedness, they’re learning their place in the body, they’re beginning to Stan, how God has made them? That’s really important as you’re looking at a potential spouse and also someone who shares the gospel. I believe that one of the biggest reasons why God left us here on planet Earth was to do what we can’t do in heaven, which is to share the gospel to Proclaim Christ. Did the good news that Christ Alone is provided salvation that he alone is the one who can cause you to be born again, that he did all the work and accomplished all of it. And we need to, then put our faith and trust in him as we turn from our sin and repentance. And so, I want to see somebody who’s doing that that they understand that. Because that also means that they’re going to want to do that toward their children, that they understand their purpose on the planet. And then I really want to see a guy who really does manifest servant leadership that he is. Truly manifesting being a servant that he he’s not driven by self, he’s driven by the spirit and the word of God. And therefore you can trust a guy like that a man who’s he knows how to be involved in the church. He understands the community of the church. He understands his purpose in the world which is to share the gospel in understands parenting and then he understands his role as a husband and gal should be looking for that. They should be looking for proven this and it drives me crazy when you know the girls jump in because he’s you know, he’s the I use this as a joke but you know his name is the same name as my favorite, you know, childhood toy Tonka or whatever. And so that’s got to be the guy, you know, where he smiled at me or he said hi. And I’m like, that’s him. And I’m like, don’t go down that road. You’re looking for a proven guy and so sensible relationship. Then in dating would be that you would see a real commitment to 1st. Thessalonians 4, no defraud and defraud in the simple definition, and there’s a little bit of debate on the meaning of defraud as it used in the context there. But it’s to actually take what’s not yours. And what that means is that until, you know, she or he says, I do at the altar at the wedding, they’re not yours. And therefore you need to treat that person as if they’re someone else’s spouse. Therefore don’t manipulate them and don’t make them like you don’t with and this is how the typical violation of defraud is gifts. You know, the they give each other gifts you give a girl a diamond ring. You’re making a statement and it’s not just a friendly little gift you know if she buys him a motorcycle. That’s that’s not a gift. That’s a, that’s a commitment the time. You know, most couples dive way too fast into spending more time together than any married couple ever has. I mean, there are just unbelievable, you know, just glued to each other texting, each other and this texting thing. And the email thing we’re talking about hands Relationship having a friendship and a relationship, not a, not a word Fest and then and then in their words, you know, making promises that you shouldn’t be making you know or on the second date saying how many kids do you want? You know that there’s just inappropriate? There’s you’re taking something or you’re elevating an expectation. When you’re saying, I want to let this progressed the second element.

I think in dating relationships will be pacing. I think I talked about that in the in the The series, maybe it’s a dating series but that there’s an even development as you read, Luke 2:52 Christ, grew, mentally, socially, and in different areas. That’s really the only verse that we have about his childhood and his progression in his childhood and it’s a very even perspective and we should be the same. We should allow, you know, our emotions and physical element to progress very slowly and behind all Other elements of mental social ministerial, you know, all the different elements of work and compatibility Etc. Should actually, you know, be progressing on an even level with your emotions and with your physical expression lagging behind. That’s that’s a huge mistake that couples make is they just get involved emotionally and then they get involved physically and then they start saying, oh we you know, we know each other, we love each other and they don’t really know each other yet and you can’t really know someone. One instantly. I mean there are you know, love at first sight, marriages that work. I get it in the Christian world, you know, there’s always somebody throwing down that card. But the, for the normal everyday person, it takes time, you know, and the younger you are, I remember a Grace Church. We had a marriage Council and we would walk through marriages, and we want to young couples, you know, at the 18 years of age, so to speak and up to 20, 20 to the kind of know each other for a year. To make sure that they’d really seen enough of each other in life to actually be able to make that decision. Now, the older you are, it is less time because you’re wiser, you’re more perceptive and you have a lot of life experience, but without that experience, we needed them to see each other so that they could, you know, paste that relationship and get to know one another, put the time and so to speak. But physical behavior is, you know, I mean, the Bible just warns, there’s certain Obvious for physical behavior that doesn’t belong anywhere except in marriage and and and needs to be kept that way. And really, you know, I always encourage because of lust and desire and emotions Etc that follow and kind of get confused in the physical expression and I don’t want to be a legalist, but I would say let that be the last thing that develops because it can mess up that relationship. You know, let that first kiss be Let that relationship develop very slowly in the Physical Realm. Trust me when you get married, you can make up for lost time so I don’t mean that in a weird way but I just you know, as God designed it before marriage. Never and in marriage always and and it’s it’s just a different perspective on that and if you’re supposed to flee youthful lusts than you should behave that way in your relationship but sensibility would be. I’m thinking all that through, I’m thinking pacing, I’m thinking No defrauding. I’m thinking I want to be proven or proving myself that this is all about Christ. And really the question I think that needs to be asked and every relationship you’re going to be sensible is to say are we intended by God to serve and glorify him better together than we would be single? Because singleness has an incredible job description. You know, undistracted Devotion to the Lord First Corinthians 7:35 it’s amazing. And so a single life is it can be an incredible asset for the kingdom of God and I wish more churches Embrace that because singles are amazing in their ability to, you know, do missions and impact others and disciple, and incredible, you know, and my wife and I had rich single. Eggs before we got married and so we were asking ourselves. Is it better that we serve the Lord together than separately and the answer ended up being yes but we that was the question we were asking ourselves is this is intention you know that that we can glorify him better together than separately and so we needed each other strengths and weaknesses and you know all kinds of things came into play with that but sensibility in a dating relationship would be a very paste. Very proven. No defraud, very, very careful in your expression of physical expression, and, you know, and go from there.

Well, Chris, I’m so thankful you hit on all those points because those are all the ones I was gonna ask you to touch on under that question. I especially like how you said that a couple is looking at how they can serve the Lord better together, you’re not just overly focused on the relationship but it’s what can this relationship accomplish for the glory of Christ and for Eternal purposes. So you’re thinking far outside of just the little bubble of Two together and your own happiness, but you’re thinking about Kingdom purposes in your relationship.

Yeah, the myopic nature of our particular struggle, this day in our culture, is so very strong and that’s why proven this in that process of really serving together is. So, so very important. I’m just reiterating what you said. So, there you go.

Yeah, well, and another thing that I appreciate you brought out is the The emotional intimacy and how easily women can especially women can get kind of sucked into that prematurely where they attach themselves emotionally. To someone before, like you said, some of those proven character qualities, overtime are established so we know for women that’s a, that is a weakness. It’s an area that we do need to practice sensibility in and self-control. But can you elaborate more on how being sensible and On minded ultimately affect our emotions.

Yeah, again, you know, thinking things through prior and choosing to pray through, you know, your day. So to speak in advance to Think Through how you might best. Respond is going to help you to not allow your emotions to to dictate your life and that’s part of how sensibility not works against emotions but actually Directs them. And again, I think Philippians 4:8 is such a classic important verse. It says, finally, whatever is true, whatever is Honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is a good repute. If there’s any excellence in anything worthy of Praise dwell on these things. These are the things you’re supposed to. Think about what happens in emotions, as we tend to think about them. We tend to, you know, allow them to direct us. When Ability would say no allow your thinking to direct us and and your mind does it mean that emotions are always bad? They’re not. But they should be directed by the truth. Whatever is true, whatever is Honorable whatever is right, whatever is lovely. And when they’re not, we need to reject it. Or when we start speculating, we need to reject them. We need to say, no, that’s not true. That’s, you know, and I don’t want to do that. In fact, I don’t want to express them proverbs 911 says a fool, lets out all of his Spirit, but a wise man, holds it back and there’s an element to this expression of anger or expression of just their internal feelings, letting that out is not actually what God, desires or to live by them. So emotions need to be guided overruled held in check when they’re true, they’re good when they’re not needs to be led by the idea of The word guiding that whatever is true whatever is right righteous whatever is Honorable and not this speculative element part of that is the body of Christ. And when you look at Titus 2 and the incredible directives that he says, love your love, your husband, love your children, pure and sensible Xin there. He basically is Under the Umbrella that there are older Godly women that are training younger women in this. And the idea of being discipled by older Godly women, not older godly woman, but older Godly women. It’s plural. We have a view from Navigators and campus Crusade for Christ which is a little bit errant though I love Navigators and what they do with especially in the military, they perpetuate the idea that discipleship is only a one on one relationship. Bishop, that’s not how its presented in scripture, in scripture is presented as a corporate element where there’s multiple women investing into you and actually when we look at our lives, most of us have had multiple people investing into us to some degree. And so what you want is several women, not that you hear what you want from one and you know kind of thing you’re looking for that. But you’re looking for wisdom from women who are older and love the Lord and are seeking to live by. The truth and not allow their emotions to be directing their life to be, you know, have influence in your life. So that’s going to be a part of it. It’s going to be. Obviously, as you’re following the scripture, you’re sitting under a good sound teaching, you’re seeking to have your thinking, be a Philippians 4:8 every godly woman must have Philippians, 4:8 memorized, it must be a part of your life. It is the actual DE filter that you guide everything through I In my own life. When, you know, I get afraid or struggle or I begin to speculate or I think thoughts or I, you know, some some Temptation flies through there were times in my life, as a young man, I would verbally actually say no. You know, I would just know because that’s not true. I want to think truth and this is a, this is the battle. This is the real battle in your head. And in your heart, your heads got to lead your heart, and it should always be that. This. And sometimes you have to say, no to your feelings, you could just know, that’s not true. I’m not going to speculate on that. I’m not going to worry about that. I’m not going to fantasize about that. I’m going to I’m going to live by truth. I’m going to live in reality that’s sensible. That’s a sensible person and obviously other elements that come into play. Are those qualities that are there? But understanding that the mind is directing and it’s directed David, you know, through the, the spirit empowered word of God, there’s multiple passages that would direct us towards that. We’re living by the truth of God’s word were Sanctified by truth John 17:17. It’s it’s Romans 12. We’re sober minded in the way that we think through these things and so as you’re looking at relationships or you’re looking at life, you’re saying what is the truth and an older guy to women and women can help you with that. And then the word of God, your discipline towards your mind. Saying, No, this is true. So I’m not going to that fantasy is not true. That speculation is not true. That were he’s not true. And you know, and reinforcing, you know who our God is? I mean, he says over and over that he cares for us, you know, the cast our cares upon him because he cares for your first Peter 5:7. It’s just constantly his thoughts towards you outnumber the sand of the seashore. He’s not distant from you. Ooh, he’s ubiquitous, he’s fully present. He’s there. He, he cares about what’s happening in your life. He’s more involved in your life than you are. And so you want to be trusting him that he knows what’s best and his will can never be defeated. And even in that whole really pressure that you feel about that, am I gonna be married? I desire to be married. Am I going to be married? You know, he promises that what God puts together? Let no man tear asunder. We forget the first part of that verse. What God He’s got to put you together, it’ll be his time and his way, and his plan and, and he never makes a mistake. He never says, oops. He never goes. Oh, I missed that guy, man. That was the perfect guy for you. He never goes down that road. It’s he knows what he’s doing you and trust yourself to him. Trust the Lord with all your heart. Don’t lean on your own understanding and that’s part of this sensibility. You’re you’re in the battle in your mind for the truth and you’re not going to allow Now your mind, you’re going to discipline your mind towards godliness. And so you want to make sure that your that’s the effort that you’re going for and and, you know, that’s why I Mentor who’s worth their salt or mentors, they’re going to ask you, you know, are you, are you doing battle here? Because it doesn’t sound like it, you know. And they’re they’re going to say, you need these verses and you need to go after this and it needs to be War, but that’s how it really affects your emotions. And again, you could be a highly emotional person, but That’s great. And I love enthusiastic people. I mean, I I actually, I’m a little bit bombastic myself and and emotional, I think my wife’s a little more stable than I am, and, you know, we temper each other in a good way. And so we allow others in our lives to make sure that we’re thinking through the truth and and living by the truth and living sensibly.

So, so helpful and I really appreciate you bringing out the Help. Procedurally. God designed us to. We have the word, we have his Spirit, but he lays out in Titus but you need to learn from older women of how to apply these truths of scripture and what it looks like live down. And so I yeah and I just was thinking of the verse and multitude of counselors. There is safety and God wants us to learn from many Godly women that he has put into our lives and just so thankful. How you brought up God’s care? And sovereignty in our lives and I rest in that so much because we already know that we’re flawed and we’re sinful and we can mess things up, but that doesn’t mess up. God’s plan. You’re not going to go down the wrong hallway at church and miss the guy. You’re supposed to meet or something, you know, God’s plans can’t be thwarted. Even though we may missed up at times, but as you said, our goal and our desire as Believers is to please Christ and to keep Moving in that direction and God his plans for our lives, will come to pass.

So, you know, we’ve spoken a little bit about what this looks like. You’ve talked about what sensibility looks like in the life of a woman, but what should a woman be looking for specifically in a Godly Man? How does sensibility look played out in his life?

Well obviously, we went back to, you know, he’s proven that he doesn’t defraud, he’s not a flirt. You know, he’s someone who has genuine interest in people and and he might be one of those guys I little-known story. My one of my favorite Seminary, professors in the early days of the latter days of Talbot in the early days of Master Seminary. His name was dr. Mark Mueller his same name as mine but we weren’t related at all and we were both single on staff at Grace and every week somehow Ow, without a plan, wasn’t very sensible. But somehow we, we made time for each other and we prayed and talked about women. And at one point, mark, even had a list of potential gals that he could marry in the future. And I know that sounds horrific to some people, but we were praying about, you know, how what would be the right person? Who, who would be that right person? And, and how would we progress in that relationship? And how would we carry ourselves? And, and me and This wonderful Sim Prof who we used to describe him as Mark Mueller, big brains and crispy little brains that he you know, would walk that through and I think that that was showing a sensible man. You know it was a guy who was he was saying I want to pursue this but I want to do it in a way that’s going to honor Christ and I want to do it with those gals who also want to honor Christ and he identified some gals like that and he began to get to know them and social settings without any Sort of commitment and before he ever asked any of them out and I think what you’d see with a godly man would be obviously a man who’s proven over time with the manifestation of fruit, but you’re going to see a guy who uses his time wisely. He’s not a hangout kind of guy, you know, just kind of floating from, you know, group to group relationship event to event. But he’s actually trying to be intentional with his usage of time, you’re going to see him maintain biblical priorities. In his usage of time. So you’re going to see him with a commitment to the church and a commitment to reach the loss and a commitment to discipleship. In some form, you’re going to see him committed to the gospel, in some form and really glorifying God, but you’re going to see biblical priorities lived out in time, if he’s a sensible, man, you’re also going to see him and a sensible woman as well. Use money wisely, there’s going to be saving, there’s going to be a budget. He’s not going to be. Be, you know, just living hand-to-mouth or paycheck to paycheck. There’s going to be a sense of discipline with his finances and this is really important in our Zip Zip culture. When I say zip sit by me in the credit card you know you just zip everything you know, as a hey Starbuck zip, you know you just doing whatever you’re doing and and people aren’t thinking through, you know, how much money are they actually spending on this and and our is this really what they want? Is it the lifestyle or the addiction to caffeine? Whatever that’s driving that but understand, it’s just going to be disciplined there. There’s going to be, there’s going to be some form of budgeting some definite form of saving. He’s always looking to the Future. So a sensible man is going to have that handled because where your treasure is there, your heart is also, and if your treasure is Christ, then you’re going to see money be used for his purposes. And, and that can only happen, when your discipline, With money. So the use of time use of money, his words are going to be his biggest hang-up. My biggest hang-up on my word still to this day it’s going to be the expression of wise words set it at the appropriate moment. He’s going to be in Ephesians 4:29 you know that no no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth but only that which is good for edification, good for building up others. There’s going to be a real thoughtfulness, you know that life is in the tongue. The Proverbs talks about its you, you express it, there’s going to be care, given he’s is not a flatterer but he’s someone who builds people up. He’s not you know somebody who’s critical but he’s Discerning you know there’s going to be an element of he can go negative on his words in a variety of ways but you’re going to see him be very careful with his choice of words and you’re going to see a planet for relationships whether Whether that’s guy relationships discipleship, his own parents or her own parents, you know, her own relationships that said there’s a plan in relationships with collegians in particular I used to tell them to their horror. I would say you don’t need as many friends as you’ve got and they just freak out. But what I was trying to do is shock them into the reality. That again, you’re meeting with so many different people that you’re really not doing anything for the glory of Christ. You’re not accomplishing anything. As far as your own development, you’re not reading any good books. You’re not studying the word, you’re not praying, you’re not going on trips, you’re just hanging out with people. It’s just people Fest and there ought to be a little bit of discipline expressed with the people that you interact with and not that everything that you do has intentionality to it. So you know the person that says well I only have this relationship because he feeds my you know and helps me become discipline and blah blah blah. I’m like you know don’t be so intentional that you’ve taken the joy out of just the random relationship at the same time. You should be disciplined with your, you know, how much time you spend with relationships and what you’re trying to accomplish. So you’re going to see a guy who has a plan to develop his own heart before the Lord that he wants to see great things done for Christ through his life but you’re going to see him use this time wisely, his money wisely, his words carefully and you’re going to see him have a plan A Oops especially as a single guy and that’s just a real practical expression of, you know, that he understands why he’s here, you understands what God is doing and he wants to be a part of what the spirit of God is doing in the world today. You know, there’s so many people who are independent of the church and the church is actually God’s plan. This is his design to reach the world when you do missions. It’s basically doing Church elsewhere. You’re trying to establish a church and that community He then to reach that Community it’s what God has designed and so he understands that. You understand sound Theology and sound theology, the word sound means healthy, it’s healthy Theology and all healthy the ology makes you like Christ. And unhealthy theology doesn’t make you like Christ and so you want to make sure that it’s true to the word it sound and that it honors the author’s intended message of the text you know so he’s going to become a Biblical cyst and a theologian and he’s going to let that Drive his life as he depends on the spirit of God to see that then lived out through him. So that would be the Practical lived out expression of sensibility. Again, a planning man, he’s planning to grow, he knows God’s Sovereign but he also knows that he is responsible, right? So work out your salvation with fear and trembling you’re responsible for God is at work in you both to Will and to work for his good, pleasure, Philippians 2. God is Sovereign and you don’t change that. You say, well, he’s part. At least Sovereign. And I’m partly no. No, he’s fully Sovereign and you’re fully responsible. He say I don’t understand that either. Why? But it’s true. So that’s we do. You know, was Jesus got her man. The answer is yes. Is the Bible? God’s word written by meant? Yes it was. I can’t explain those things. I can only explain that. That’s what the Bible teaches and therefore we pursue that to be fully responsible and that’s I think what’s missing with mended. It is responsibility. Just just Set the responsibility that you have to initiate all this. And if guys would grow up and stop being Peter Pan, we’d find a lot more happy people in this planet. So anyway, yeah, I’m a lot harder on men. Sorry.

No, I yeah. Appreciate you helping us know what to look for. And and we’ve talked about on this podcast many times that, you know, no one is perfect, no one is you’re not looking for Jesus In the Flesh. You know, we we understand that we are all working progress and we no one has arrived, but you can definitely identify progression in the right direction. And yeah, God will be faithful to continue to grow them as he will us as women. So.

Well, let me let me actually make it even more scary for you if I can Christi and that is that, you know, Paul and I believe that he was speaking to every himself, as a Christian when he said o Wretched, Man, that I am that, Said that he was the chief of Sinners and that was present tense. And this is later in his life, you know, we really don’t grasp. Just how vile we are and how defiant we have been to our God and how much grace he’s lavished on us. And the more that we can mourn over our sin and be poor in spirit and be a beggar as the Beatitudes demand of us. The better off. We’re going to be in relationship. And our expectation is is to see someone Who is in the power of God’s spirit. Again, we can’t do this at our own flesh that he is rely. He’s making attempts to pursue Christ likeness. That’s the key. He’s still going to be battling, he’s going to have his own demons. He’s going to have his own sin bents. I mean, you look at Abraham lying, you know, lied about Sarah twice, and she still stuck with him. I don’t get that, you know, Peter just the my hero, the Man of the foot shape mouth, that’s that’s neat. You know, David was lecherous and and all of them, you know, again, examples. You know, Timothy had difficulties with his worry and concern and his stomach issues and there’s just we’re all flawed people but are we pursuing Christ? We want Christ more than anything and then if that drive is proven in someone’s life, then that you can link up to somebody like that in spite of all Their horrific – and wretchedness and chief of Sinners. You can commit to a person like that because if that drive is proven, you know what I mean, the drive that I want, I want what Christ wants more than anything and they’ve demonstrated that for a year, that’s a guy, you’re never going to get a perfect guy. He’s a wretch. And so, are you, sorry. And you just, you know, I have a very, very, very low view of humanity and a very, very, very high view of God. And one of the, one of the Themes of our churches. We take God at his word, seriously, we don’t take ourselves seriously at all, we try to roll with our humanity and our mess-ups, and actually, just keep trying to accomplish what he wants us to accomplish. And it’s it actually makes a sweet environment, it really does. But but don’t man a youth, this, he’s got to be a Godly Man. And what they mean, sometimes, in certain circles, is, you got to be a self righteous, man. You know, he pretends to be righteous when Really. He’s battling with this and his thoughts and his motives, Etc. He’s still struggling all along the way.

Yeah, I think it boils down to what you’re getting at. Is humility and understanding. We understand who we are, like you said, and who God is and we don’t pretend to be self-righteous or better than we are. So you can you can tell that in somebody’s life by what they say by how they live, if they truly see themselves accurately. Yeah, good reminders.

So, I mean, I’m feeling convicted. I know the listeners are as well and you’ve given us a lot of practical ways to grow. Sensibility. Do you have any any other thoughts on that if someone just knows that they’re, they’re run by their emotions or circumstances? And they’re really seeing that? They are not a thinking person in a lot of areas of their life. How would you direct them to grow in that?

Well, first, you know, make sure that you’re in a community that elevates the word of God over, you know, everything and anything. And a lot of times you’ll find themselves because of loyalties, or History there there at a church that, you know, has sermonettes for Christian, it’s or stories or feelings. The whole thing is driven by emotion and if you’re in that kind of situation, you need to be under solid instruction, you just have to hear the word. The word is what’s going to sanctify us, the words. What’s going to help us to make progress and the area of sensibility? So that would be. The first thing is, it might mean that you change churches and there are, you know, less and less churches that are just Founded simply on the author’s intended message of the text. And so you need to find those kind of places and just listen and read and study and and you’re not going to be a very sensible person unless you’re being saturated in, God’s word.

Secondly, would be obviously what we already talked about in Titus Chapter 2 that the older women are discipling training, it’s actually the root word has an element of sensibility to it. So that route. Word to train the young women to love their husbands. Love their children Etc. That training is a sensible process or expression of helping them passing on the truth of God’s word and lived out the wisdom that we need to pull this off as somebody who’s already been there. Even young marrieds desperately need older Godly women to work through how to love their husband and to love their children. It’s super desperate. That’s why you have every woman’s Grace, we have older women, and helping younger women. With those 02. You know, five-year-old, really working through how to how to do that, how to make that happen and, and multiple women dependent obedience. I, you know, we I’m not a charismatic at all, but I believe that we need to be filled with the spirit and we need to be dependent upon him, and that verb to be filled is for everyone. It’s plural. It’s a command. So, it has to be obeyed and interesting enough, it’s in the passive voice. Voice, which which means that it has to be done to you. And so you’re truly not doing the Christian life. You are, depending and obeying. I call it D period, opioid-dependent obey, make a process of depending relying trusting and trying to live in the power of the Spirit, by the word of God. The spirit of God, never ever, ever Honors that, which is against the word because he’s the spirit of Truth. And so therefore, just to be walking according to the truth of As word independence, upon the spirit, dependent obedience, and again, going back to the local church that community at giftedness of different people, having different kinds of gifts, manifested around you. If they’re serving in a variety of different ways, then you’re seeing Christ in a variety of different ways and that’s going to make you more sensible. It’s going to make you think more realistically when you begin to see Christ manifested in a multiplicity of different ways.

And and then I would, I would do some preparation for the future, you know, you when you walk down the aisle and you say I do you don’t automatically become the ultimate wife and when I, you know, walk down the aisle or you know and say I do I don’t become the ultimate husband, you have to develop the skills of being a wife and the skills of being a mother and the skills of being a husband and a father prior to marriage and so develop those skills, again sharing the gospel, your purpose on the planet, manifesting Christ living under the weight of the Gospel itself sharing and Alton relationally with and again, discipleship relationships.

And I would try to find a balance between if you’re going to develop sensibility truth and emotion, don’t don’t be so you know you’re not going to turn it into Spock and be emotionless. That’s not honoring Christ. He gave you Joy, he gave you those expressions to be expressed but they should be guided by Philippians 4:8, whatever’s truth, whatever is right. Right. Whatever is Honorable. So it’s always guided and and subservient to truth and right and righteousness, it’s d’etre, so desire the Lord. There’s so many songs, we should desire him and seek Him, and want him. And our emotions are our wonderful expression, Joy inexpressible, Etc, happiness, even sorrow and grief are so much a part of what it means to be a believer in a good way. A healthy way. So fine. Expression is okay, but it should be according to truth. Not overtly, you know, we need to go through grief, when there’s, you know, people move away or our spouse dies or a parent dies and that that’s a good healthy thing, but it shouldn’t lead to Despair. And so, there’s an element of saying, well, no truth would be that I have hope, you know, even in the midst of this, even though I’m sorrowful and even though there are tears and then I would read good books. Ex, you know, be careful but there are so many great biographies of women and men today. That weren’t available when I was younger and it’s fantastic. And so drink those up, talk about them, let them be your models. Let them disciple you so to speak and that and I think that you’ll develop sensibility over time. And again, A desperate need today with a chaotic crazy anti-christian Society.

Amen. And we know that he is faithful. So we’re we’re confident that he will finish that good work that he has started in us as we daily depend on him and desire to please him with our lives. And so wow just super sharpened by this conversation Chris and I know that will be the experience of the listeners as well, really. Appreciate your time and study of God’s word, to be able to pull out those truths of scripture and help us know how To apply them in these different areas of our life. So so thankful for you and your ministry and just appreciate your time today.

Well, thank you, Christi. It was an honor to be here and I hope it, you know, ends up being something that can help him and glorify God. To apply them in these different areas of our life. So so thankful for you and your ministry and just appreciate your time today. Well, thank you, Christi. It was an honor to be here and I hope it, you know, ends up being something that can help him and glorify God.