Introduction (Christy Rose)

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast.

My name is Christy Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hey friends, today I have the delight of having a conversation with Marie Clark who has come on the show a couple of different times before. Once to discuss the negative examples of women in Proverbs and then the second time to teach us how to cultivate a home centered on Christ.

But our conversation today is on manipulation, understanding it biblically, and how to respond in a godly way if we are in a situation where someone is trying to manipulate us. Some of you might think this topic doesn’t apply to your life, but Marie sheds a lot of light and exposes for us even the subtle ways manipulation can show up in our relationships.

This is the first part of a two-part series so buckle up. And now here is Marie Clark.

Defining Manipulation Biblically

Christy Rose: Hello Marie. I knew I wanted to have you back on the podcast but I wasn’t sure what topic we should discuss. And you actually suggested the idea of manipulation. And at first that felt a little intense. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized that yes, we are all prone to use this ungodly tactic to try and control people or to get our way. And we have character weaknesses that open us up to other people using this against us. So I’m looking forward to you shedding some light on both of those sides of that same coin and how we can put off this behavior and put on Christ-likeness instead.

So we’re just going to jump right in here and define our terms because we want to make sure that we are grounded in what God says and thinks about this. So what is manipulation and do we see it in the Bible?

Marie Clark: Yeah, thank you so much. You know what, actually, I find this topic a little bit intuitive as well, but I really, I really want to approach it as entirely biblically as we can because it’s an area that has, if you think about it, an abundant amount of opinion from a worldly perspective. And I’m sure that for your listeners, there’s a lot of personal experiences and observations pertaining to this subject because it’s not an uncommon sin. So as much as we can relate to the way that the world talks about it, we need to know what the word of God says about it.

Is the Word “Manipulation” in the Bible?

Marie Clark: So the first question that I asked myself is, is manipulation in the Bible? And there’s really two answers to that question. The first is that the word manipulation is not in any literal translation. And that’s because just like the word dinosaur can’t be found in the Bible, it’s just because etymologically it wasn’t invented yet.

As far as I can tell, the first known use of the word manipulate was in like the 1820s, and it had a literal meaning. So it described treating or operating with your hands or by mechanical means, especially in a skillful manner. So phrases like you could manipulate a pencil or manipulate a machine or the baby is learning to manipulate blocks. But the figurative use that we use today that pertains to personal interactions really started like in the 1860s. And it was referring to politicians trying to convince people of their stance.

So that means that the word manipulation, as these things, you know, tend to come about and be invented, it’s actually a really good word that is used to describe the behavior that we see and how we use the word.(Self-Correction/Aside on the word’s literal use): Now, when I was in physical therapy recently, because I had a muscle in my leg and it kept tightening up and it was tense and in response to overexertion. And the physical therapist would come in and they would apply this like really heavy pressure and like force movement and control my muscles. And my muscles didn’t want to do it. So she’s manipulating them physically to make them do what they need to do. So in my case, that’s a good thing because my muscles are wrong. But in personal relationships, not so much, right? That’s not an area where we want forceful movement and control to make us do things.

The Concept of Manipulation in Scripture

Marie Clark: So if the word manipulation is not in the Bible, then is that concept in the Bible? And the answer to that question is 1000 times yes. We see so many examples of manipulation happening in the Bible, starting in the book of Genesis and spreading throughout the Bible, even to books that you’d never expect like Nehemiah. I remember reading through Nehemiah and seeing it and being like, wow, I didn’t expect that.

So not only is this concept, is this behavior in the Bible, but we can actually define and describe this behavior biblically without using any kind of worldly terms for it.

A Biblical Definition of Manipulation

Marie Clark: So I’m actually going to start out by defining manipulation by reading Jude 1:16. So that says: “These [people] are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts. They speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.”

So the first thing that Scripture makes clear is that there are people—we do this as humans—trying to get what we want through sinning against others in specific ways to try to gain an advantage. I think that’s a really good way to understand manipulation.

According to Jude, it stems from:

• Pride and self-centered motivations.
• A desire to control, which is idolatry, in order to gain a perceived advantage.
• It involves complaint and finding fault in others and arrogance and deception.

Part of the arrogance that we see is displayed when a person thinks that their way is the right way, their way is the best way, maybe their way is even like the only way, and other people are foolish not to do what they’re advising. They know better.

I would just say this in bold here: The goal is getting their desired outcome. I’m going to repeat that often as we talk today, because I just want that to be percolating in our brains.

So we see that with manipulation, the goal is self-fulfillment through controlling others rather than seeking to selflessly and humbly serve others and trust God with the outcomes and glorify Him to get their way.

Tactics Used by Manipulators

Marie Clark: This is just, I’m trying to make it really practical. A person who manipulates will use some or all of the following behaviors. And I’m getting all these examples directly from Scripture:

• Complaining, finding fault
• Deceit (outright lies, withholding information, partial truths to control those outcomes)
• Mocking and belittling (“you don’t understand,” “you don’t get it”)
• Coercion, threatening punishment (silent treatment, destruction of property, raging, slandering others)
• Guilt
• Flattery
• Self-pity and playing the victim
• Personal heroism or martyrdom
• Other emotional tactics

Somebody wants something, and often unconsciously, it’s brought up in whatever way they think is most likely to get you to say yes.

While it may not be completely consciously manipulative with the whole process figured out, the goal is still securing what you want through any means it takes. And that is intentional sin.

Stages of Manipulation

Marie Clark: We might notice the process of manipulation kind of has like stages to it, depending on the success or the failure of the tactics they try.

1. Start with Flattery: “You’re the only one I can trust,” “I really need you,” or “We’re just really counting on you to be there to fix this.”
2. Move to Guilt/Blame (if resisted): “You really let me down,” “I should have known I couldn’t count on you,” or “Never mind that I helped you last month.”
3. Morph to Deception/Questioning Reason: Phrases things deceptively to make you feel like you don’t have information they have, or call your reason into question: “You don’t understand what’s really going on,” or “You should check your heart.”
4. Go on to Anger/Punishment: “Well, don’t expect anything from me,” or “I’m going to make you sorry you did that.”
5. Self-Pity/Martyrdom: “Sure, yeah, just go tell the pastor that I’m the big bully. I just can’t do anything right.”

When it blows over, you feel horribly upset, you feel trapped and hopeless, and they kind of move on with their lives to the next thing that they’re upset about.

Misuse of Authority and Power

Marie Clark: Another aspect that I really need to bring up about this is that manipulation can misuse authority and power or trust to dominate other people. And that can be really big in like husband-wife relationships or even in parenting with the parents of adult children. And I’m sorry to also say it can happen in some churches.

Ezekiel 34 talks about that misuse of power and authority. It describes the shepherds of Israel who abuse the sheep. And it says of them in verse 21, “You push with side and shoulder and thrust at all the weak with your horns until you’ve scattered them abroad.” Man, what a clear picture of someone in authority throwing their weight around without regard for others, but just wanting to control it. Because again, manipulation is that goal of self-fulfillment through controlling others rather than seeking to selflessly and humbly serve others, trust God, and glorify him.

Christy Rose: Yes, and doing it that way, we know we have God’s help and strength and grace in the midst of those situations. So if we’re doing it God’s way, we know that we’ll have access to his help and enabling.

The Appearance of Weakness and Spiritual Abuse

Christy Rose: You know, it’s interesting from the list that you provided, they’re not all like heavy-handed means or someone in authority. Lou Priolo has a booklet on manipulation and he says manipulators often portray themselves as helpless, hurting, frightened or wounded when the truth is they are hostile, aggressive and warriors or fighters. So sometimes it can come across as someone who, like you were saying, just kind of weak and helpless and preying on your emotions.

But one of the examples you gave was you mentioned someone saying, “well, you need to check your heart.” And that just prompted me to think of how sometimes people can misuse scripture to bring a conviction or something or get their way. So you have to be careful about that. I’ve heard of that happening before, kind of a spiritual abuse. Maybe a husband might use this way telling his wife she has to submit or doing it in a very ungodly way. So I don’t know if you have any thoughts to share on kind of the spiritual abuse side of manipulation, but…

Marie Clark: Let’s just say, yeah, absolutely. I mean that does come up a lot. And anytime that someone’s trying, every time there’s an attitude there which is not humble and kindly corrective and encouraging you to obey the Lord—and “will you just need to submit”—all that kind of stuff. The Bible never tells a husband to make his wife submit. That’s something she’s supposed to do from her heart. So yeah, people twisting the scripture, that’s been going on for a long time and it’s grievous and it does not communicate a heart to love and encourage someone to obey at all. It’s obviously self-motivated.

Trusting God with Outcomes

Christy Rose: I love how you entered that section on trusting God, because that truly is [key]. We can’t control other people or control outcomes. And maybe we do see something that is harmful to someone… you know, what if you see parents that are parenting their child in a way that you think is not going to lead to good for that child and you want to speak into their life. But knowing how to offer advice or counsel without trying to be manipulative to the parents and how you do approach it, I think is helpful.

Marie Clark: Yeah, you have to, you really do have to trust the Lord. A lot of times with manipulation, there’s a lack of trust in God’s sovereignty to bring about the outcomes that he wants. So when we like in your example of parenting with a child, we can go and speak to that person and bring scripture and have genuine concern and pray for them. But then if they don’t do what we want, it does not become our job to enforce it. And that’s where it crosses into manipulation.

And the truth is, again, God does not tell us to produce products. He tells us to be faithful. So in those cases, we can speak and be and, and say what’s right and honor God and then entrust those results to him and continue to pray for those people. But it’s not our job to enforce it.

Christy Rose: Exactly. And we only honor or we are only responsible before the Lord for our own decisions, not the decisions of other people.

Marie Clark: And it’s actually a relief. It’s such a relief to know it’s not up to us. We can honor God. He tells us how we can do that. Even in difficult marriages, difficult parenting situations, we can honor God. What a relief that we can do something effective that pleases God. And we are not, we’re not held accountable for the actions of other people.

Biblical Example: Laban (Genesis 29-31)

Christy Rose: Now you mentioned that this is all over the Scriptures, so could you give us some examples of where we see manipulation happening in the Bible?

Marie Clark: Yeah, well, I definitely, I want to start in Genesis because this, and it probably actually starts before the account that I’m going to bring up, but I want us to look at a character named Laban. And for the sake of time, I’m just going to summarize some things that happened and point out some things. And this is from Genesis 29 through 31.

Laban’s Deception of Jacob

Marie Clark: One of the unfortunate things is that people experience a lot of manipulation, often within family relationships. So I think it’s important for us to talk about that because family dynamics are complicated.

We know that Jacob left his family and he goes into the country of Laban. And first off, Laban welcomes him with real signs of care and affection. When Jacob shows up in his country in Genesis 29, it tells us the story of how Laban ran out to meet him and he embraced him and he kissed him and he brought him home. And he tells Jacob, “you’re bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.”

Then Laban has Jacob working for him. He asks Jacob, “what do you, what do you want for your wages?” The only thing he wants, as we know, is Rachel, because he loves her and he’s willing to work seven years just for her. Laban agrees to it. He makes a commitment with Jacob, and he says he can marry her.

But on the wedding night, Laban deceives him and puts Leah in the tent, which is devastating for everybody.

In the morning, when Jacob wakes up and finds Leah, he says to Laban, “What is this you’ve done to me? It was for Rachel that I served you. Why have you deceived me?”

I want us to notice, Laban’s response is really gratingly nonchalant. He just says, “Well, it’s not the practice in our place to marry off the younger before the first born. Just complete this week with the one, and then we’ll give you the other. Also, if you serve me another seven years.”

Laban’s demonstrating deception for the sake of gaining an advantage and controlling the outcome by forcing a situation that he knew Jacob didn’t want, but because Laban thought it was the best thing to do. He never admits wrong or apologizes.

Proverbs 26:18-19 says: “Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows and death, so is the man who deceives his neighbor and then says, ‘Wasn’t I just joking?'” He deceived Jacob and then he acted like Jacob had no real reason to be upset about it.

Laban Moves the Goalposts

Marie Clark: Life goes on for Laban, Jacob, Leah and Rachel, and it’s a life filled with unhappy strife. Jacob wants to leave the situation, but Laban keeps on pulling him back in. He keeps making him offers that he can’t refuse. They seem like really good deals, but they always have strings attached. Laban keeps changing the deal. So he keeps moving the goal posts, just like he did with marrying Rachel. Jacob says Laban has cheated him. He’s changed his wages 10 times.

Because Jacob does well, Laban’s not happy. In Genesis 31, it tells us that the attitude of Laban was not friendly towards Jacob as it had formerly been. He’s friendly, he flatters, then he deceives, he gets angry. He’s trying to control the outcomes for his benefit.

God’s Intervention

Marie Clark: What do you do in that kind of a situation? Laban is obviously not repenting. He’s been like this for years. Jacob has talked to him. It’s been nothing but frustration. But with a manipulator like Laban, there’s no way to trust anything that he says.

Psalm 55:19-21 describes a person like this so perfectly: “They do not change and do not fear God. He’s put forth his hands against those who were at peace with him. He’s violated his covenant. His speech was smoother than butter, but his heart was war. His words were softer than oil, yet they were drawn swords.” That is a perfect description of manipulation.

What happens in this case is that God intervenes. God says to Jacob, “I have seen all that Laban has been doing to you. Leave this land and return to the land of your birth.”

The wives actually say, “Do we still have any portion or inheritance in our father’s house? Are we not reckoned by him as foreigners? For he has sold us and also entirely consumed our purchase price.” (Genesis 31:14). So they’re fine with leaving.

They have to plan a secret escape because Laban is an untrustworthy person.

Laban’s Pursuit and Justification

Marie Clark: Laban doesn’t see himself that way, not at all. In fact, when he hears they’re gone, he assembles an army and he basically pursues them hotly and hunts them down.

God comes to Laban in a dream and he says this to him: “Be careful that you do not speak to Jacob either good or bad.” Don’t say anything good (don’t flatter him, don’t make him promises, don’t draw him back in), but he also says to him, don’t say anything bad (don’t you go threatening him). He’s basically telling Laban, don’t you dare manipulate either way.

When Laban eventually overtakes Jacob in Genesis 31, listen to the language here that he’s using. He says, “Why did you flee secretly and deceive me and not tell me so that I might have sent you away with gladness and with songs and with tambourine and with liar. And you didn’t allow me to kiss my sons and my daughters.”

Laban is actually the misunderstood good guy. He just wanted to say goodbye. He just wanted to throw them a party. But it kind of blows his cover because he goes on and says, “Now you have acted foolishly. It is in my power to do you harm.”

Jacob just says, “Well, we were afraid of you. I thought you’d take my wives and my children and my flocks away.” He actually says, “These 20 years I’ve been in your house… You’ve changed my wages 10 times. And if the God of my father had not been with me, surely now you would have sent me away empty handed.”

Laban’s response to this? He says, “Well, just so we’re clear, the daughters are my daughters, the children are my children, the flocks are my flocks. And everything that you see is mine.” This is often a manipulator’s favorite line of reasoning: “You owe me. And don’t forget that you owe everything to me.”

Conclusion of the Laban Account

Marie Clark: Thankfully, God is in this, and Jacob’s determined to leave. They make this covenant to basically stay away from each other. Laban kisses his grandsons and his daughters goodbye and blesses them. He’s trying to appear like a godly father and father-in-law.

Laban experience the fulfillment of the proverb that says: “He who troubles his own house and inherits the wind.” (Proverbs 11:29). If children are the heritage or inheritance of the righteous, then those who have harmed and troubled their own children will find them missing when old age makes them want their presence because they’ve been blown away by you.

If I just look back on that list I mentioned earlier, how many of the qualities of manipulation do we see in Laban? I think the answer is all of them.

Christy Rose: Yeah, but it’s so encouraging to know that God was with Jacob and it talks about that he still blessed him, gave him a way of escape and intervened even through all of that.

One thing that Laban said, and this is something that as I was studying for this topic, I came across is that manipulators will often use the “why” question. So that could be kind of a telltale sign that if they start asking like, “why haven’t you done this,” “why this,” “why that,” it could be trying to prey on your emotions with that.

Flattery: The Manipulator’s Tool

Christy Rose: But Laban all throughout and you’ve mentioned this multiple times, is that he used flattery. So I would love to go down that track a little bit and understand what does flattery look like and how do we know if something is flattery or sincere praise?

Marie Clark: Oh man, that’s such a good . We have to talk about that because flattery is definitely a strong aspect of manipulation. What it is is the use of self-serving compliments to get what you want.

In some Bible verses that talk about flattery:

• Proverbs says a flattering mouth works ruin.
• Proverbs 29:5 tells us the reason for it: “A man who flatters his neighbor is spreading a net for his steps.”
• In Romans 16:18, Paul’s talking about false teachers: “For such men are slaves, not of our Lord Jesus Christ, but of their own appetites; for by their smooth and flattering speech they deceive the hearts of the unsuspecting.”

I wrote in my Bible by this verse: watch out for flattery that you perceive to be intended as a means to an end or insincere. Like, do they flatter you and then ask for a favor? Are they trying to get you on their side in an argument? Are they trying to secure your loyalty for the future?

The word flattery is not used positively in the Bible. In fact, in Scripture, it always has a negative connotation. It’s always connected with deception and manipulation and insincerity. Even Paul, when he was at the church in Thessalonica, he was very intentional to distance himself from flattery. In First Thessalonians 2:5, he says, “We never came to you with flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed—God is witness.” So he’s implying that flattery is associated with greed and deceit.

Why Do People Use Flattery?

Marie Clark: Flattery is something that manipulators use to put down the defenses of someone they want to get something from.

We’re going to look at a couple different interactions of Saul and David. Saul is a very manipulative person. In First Samuel 18:20, it says that Saul thought, “I will give her [Michael] to him, that she may become a snare to him and at the hand of the Philistines may be against him.” Therefore Saul said to David for a second time, “You may become my son-in-law today.” And he commanded his servants saying, “Speak to David secretly saying, ‘Behold, the king delights in you and all his servants love you. Now, therefore, become the King’s son-in-law.'”

Here we can clearly see that Saul is trying to use flattery to bring down David’s defenses. He’s not speaking honest praise. He’s deceiving him. He’s trying to kill him. And he’s even telling the servants, speak secretly to him with a flattering lie.

Flattery vs. Sincere Praise

Christy Rose: How do you know if something is flattery or sincere praise?

Marie Clark: Man, that’s so important because obviously the Bible does talk about encouraging others, right? It’s those tend to be terms like edification, blessing, praise. It’s a great joy to tell people things that we appreciate about them and how we see God working in their lives.

I think that probably the biggest indicator as to whether something is flattery or a sincere compliment is going to be the character of the person offering the compliment.

• Do they offer flowing flattery, but then either to your face or behind your back, they’re irritated with you?
• Do you have this sense that if you don’t do what they suggest, they’re not going to be happy about it?
• Are they a person who asks for favors a lot and has a lot of needs, and yet they’re not the type that will serve selflessly themselves?
• Are they the type to speak badly about other people? Are they coming to complain to you about others, but then they compare you to that person and they tell you how you’re better than they are? If that’s going on, we’re definitely looking at duplicitous biblical flattery.

I think we kind of get a sense of that. We kind of have that uncomfortable feeling. So when a person flatters you and then you know they’re complaining about you or they’re upset, you’re probably looking at biblical flattery.

Christy Rose: Helpful to know that, and I appreciate you brought out that encouragement is so needed. And that is what we’re called to do in the Bible. The motives are key: are you trying to get something from that person?

I know for myself, when I’m tempted to do this, it’s usually because I want that person to like me.

Marie Clark: Man-pleasing or wanting someone who’s like that we respect to like us. Are we saying dear kind things to those who are like the least of these? I do think it challenges our motivations. Who are we going to and why are we saying nice things? We don’t need anything from them, even their admiration. We just want to bless them.

Christy Rose: That comes down to putting others needs before your own. You’re really genuinely concerned about how to be a blessing to them and you’re not thinking about yourself in that moment. That is so convicting. If you are saying encouraging words to the person to their face, but then talking bad about them behind their back, your heart is not sincerely praising them.

Marie Clark: I think that’s an important thing to say as we’re talking about manipulation is like we all fall into this. We do need to look in the mirror because even when we’re not trying to, we can all be inclined towards this. And so I just think it’s really good for self-introspection as well.

Responding to Manipulation

Christy Rose: There are certain people that tend to be the target of manipulators. Maybe they have what looks like a handle on their back where people are just aware that they can push and pull them around. So what makes someone easily manipulated by others? And what does a godly response to manipulation look like?

Marie Clark: Okay. So the first thing I’m going to say is we need to recognize it for what it is. I do feel like there are some people who are just more easily sucked into being manipulated. I have actually been one of those people in the past and I was trying to think through the reasons.

Why Are Some People Easily Manipulated?

Marie Clark: There’s various reasons:

• A fear of man and wanting to please other people. If you’re focused on honoring people, you’re going to be sucked into what people want from you more than what God wants from you.
• They are kind people, maybe a little naive, maybe the sort of people that tend to blame themselves for things that aren’t their fault.
• They grew up with manipulation as the norm in their families.
• Guilt tripping has a real stranglehold on them.
• They are inclined to believe the best about other people, but then maybe they don’t bring along the wisdom and the strength to see those caution signs popping up.
• With women, sometimes, am I drawn to that guy who’s confident and he likes control and he humble-brags about himself?

Matthew Henry in a commentary on Second Timothy 3 actually said there have ever been artful men who by pretenses and flatteries creep into the favor and confidence of those who are too easy of belief, ignorant and fanciful.

Jesus told us, “Be innocent as doves, but I want you to be as shrewd as Vipers.” Paul told us, “hey, we’re not ignorant of Satan’s schemes.” And he said again in Ephesians 5:17, “Don’t be foolish, but know what the will of God is.”

God wants us to be a people who are wise and discerning about good and bad. He wants us to be alert and aware. We do not honor God by being uninformed and we do not honor God by being used. We honor God by knowing and recognizing and identifying the reality of a situation and then responding to it biblically.

Four Responses to Manipulation

1. Be Discerning

Marie Clark: First of all, be a discerning person who learns how to recognize manipulation for what it is.

2. Respond, but Don’t Engage

Marie Clark: Really interesting case in Nehemiah 6-8. Nehemiah is focused on rebuilding the wall. Meanwhile, he’s been sent five manipulative letters from a guy called Samballot in Samaria. He was trying to get Nehemiah to team up with him and he was using deception and false accusations and scare tactics.

When he gets this letter and it’s got all these accusations, he just says, “Such things as you are saying have not been done, but you are inventing them in your own mind,” period. That’s all.

Respond, but don’t engage with nonsense. The truth needs to be spoken simply. Proverbs 26:5 says you’re supposed to answer a fool according to his folly deserves.

3. Choose Not to Answer

Marie Clark: If it’s clear that someone’s trying to trap you or engage you in a bad situation, another option is just to not even answer. We actually have an example of this from Jesus.

In Luke 20, the chief priests and scribes were trying to trap Jesus with their words. They ask him by what authority he is doing these things. Jesus answered and said, “I’ll ask you a question and you tell me, was the baptism of John from heaven or from men?” When they couldn’t answer, Jesus said to them, “Then nor will I tell you by what authority I do these things.”

He just sort of opts out, doesn’t he? And we can do that too. If someone is trying to taunt you or get you riled up, you can politely disengage from the conversation. Jesus is the one who created the imagery and told us not to cast our pearls before swine. The truth is that no matter how carefully you try to do it, if you choose to wrestle with pigs, you’re going to get muddy. And sometimes you just have to decide you’re not going to go climb down into that pen.

4. Do Not Entrust Yourself to an Untrustworthy Person

Marie Clark: This is really important as we talk about this topic. In First Samuel 26, this is another scene with Saul and David. David is in this position of like, does he like me and want me to be his son-in-law or does he want to kill me?

Saul is hunting David down. But when he sees him, listen to like, what Saul says. He says, “Is this your voice, my son David? I have sinned, returned my son David, for I will not harm you again because my life was precious in your sight this day. Behold, I have played the fool. I have committed serious error.”

The question at hand is, is Saul really trustworthy now? Which of these two speaks more truthfully, his words which sounds so sincere, or his repeated actions?

David wasn’t tricked. He does not put his trust back in Saul.

His instructive response for us is: “Behold, as your life was highly valued in my sight today, so may my life be highly valued in the sight of the Lord, and may he deliver me from all my distress.”

He did not entrust himself to Saul’s promise not to harm him. He didn’t go back with him because verse 25 says, “So David went on his way and Saul returned to his palace.” David wisely kept his distance from Saul even though he sincerely told him to return.

Christy Rose: So, so good. And I’m just thinking of that verse of the fear of man is a snare and how the fear of God is protection. We need to fear the right person.

This is where wisdom comes in the balance of understanding how to apply Scripture because I know some people will say, “well, love, hopes, all things.” But if there’s a pattern, you need to be aware. You don’t just right away trust them again. I think trust is something that has to be earned back. You can be thankful and pray for them if you see some good signs. But yeah, like you said, don’t entrust yourself to them.

Conclusion

Christy Rose: Marie, this has been so practical, so helpful. I love all the biblical examples. And we’re going to be doing a two-parter with this series. And so this first part we’re talking about if someone is trying to manipulate us, our second part is going to be focused on what if you’re tempted to manipulate other people, even in subtle ways, maybe you’re not even fully aware of it. So I’m looking forward to that second part. And I’m so thankful that we had this conversation today. It was convicting and I know it will be for the listeners as well.

Marie Clark: Amen. Thank you so much. I can’t wait.