EP 78

welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast.

My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the godfearing men and women in my life.

Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hello ladies.

We are going to be investing more time in the principles found in Titus Chapter 2 verses four and five.

And today we are learning how to love our husbands, which is the first principle in that passage that older women are instructed to train younger women how to do.

My guest Heidi Kinzel breaks down this topic in a way that is more like helpful preparation for us as singles who desire marriage.

So here is my conversation with Heidi.

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast.

Heidi, would you be so kind as to share a little about yourself and where God has you in life and ministry with the listeners today?

Thank you so much for having me, Christi.

We have five children, 5 adult children.

We have two grandchildren.

My husband is a teacher.

He teaches Hebrew, an Old Testament.

He’s an elder at grace and truth.

I have had the privilege of being a ministry wife for many years.

We were married 37 years ago and some of the I would say the privileges or blessings that I’ve had is to come alongside my husband and to serve other women.

He’s teaching the men, so I love to come along the women who he.
He’s working with their husbands and then I have the opportunity to work with the wives.

I’ve had moms groups, I love this theme and of Titus two and the older women teaching the younger women.

So I have been involved with many younger women, singles, premarital couples.

We have just have a passion also for.
Evangelism.

I also do counseling and music ministry, so those are just a few things that I’ve enjoyed doing.

I just really am thankful for what God has brought into our lives and thankful for the ministry opportunities that we have.

Well, I was excited to meet you Heidi.

The first time I met you we talked for.
I think it was two hours and I just.

I left with the impression of you were just so others oriented and interested in learning about me and asking questions and encouraging and I that was about a year ago or so and I am excited to bring you on and and as we were kind of sitting down and trying to figure out a good topic for you during the course that conversation I just brought up.

You know, I’m really excited about Titus Two and going through those principles and that seemed to be the the thing that resonated with you because that is your passion as well.

And I just, yeah, I’m thankful for that.

And I feel like God providentially brought that topic up here for us to discuss today.

And the Titus 2 versus 3 through 5 passage has really increased in importance in my mind because this is a list of qualities, that God, who’s our creator and designer, he wants us as women in particular to be growing in these qualities.

So if our Creator that says these things are important, then I’m gonna sit up, pay attention, and I want to put a high level of importance on these principles and I want to study them and learn them.

There are many ways that we can grow in some of these, even as single women, even though some pertain to marriage and family.

So I’m going to just read Titus 2/3 through five to get us started before we go through our questions today.

So Titus 2, verse three.

Older women likewise, are to be reverent in their behavior, not malicious gossips nor enslaved too much wine.

Teaching what is good so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands so that the word of God will not be dishonored.

So we are starting out.

We’ve already covered on this podcast being sensible.

Today we’re going to cover that first principle on the list of loving our husbands, which the listeners might be wondering about since this is a podcast directed towards single women, how do we study and apply this?

But as with most things in life, preparation is key and it’s necessary.

And we don’t wait till we’re in the thick of something to begin learning.

So we want to Start learning and growing in this area, and I think we will be able to with some of these questions that we’re going to cover.

So why is the principal loving your husband at the beginning of this list in Titus Two that older women are to be teaching younger women?

Good question.

Well, I believe that that has always been the priority relationship.

I was reading in Genesis again and I was struck again about the creation account and how God made male and female and our image.

And then later how he is to hold fast to his wife and they shall be 1 flesh.

I believe that that one flesh relationship is only between the husband and wife.

Even though children are very important, they are second to the husband wife relationship.

So I think that relationship between the husband and wife is deeper.

It also reflects.
Christ and the church.

So it’s the primary ministry, I believe, for the wife.

And I think that’s why God put that first in the list of what the older women are, to teach the younger women.

And can you also help us understand when it says loving your husband?

What kind of love are we talking about here in Titus 2?

Yes, that is so important to understand and it’s really a unique word and it means husband lovers directly.

And it’s really was in that time in the Greek understanding that was the highest honor was for wives to be called a husband, lover and they would even find it on tombstones I guess in that in that time period.

And that would be the highest calling, that a wife would be a husband and lover.

That means that wives are to be their husband’s best friend.

The older women are to teach younger women how to be their husband’s best friend, their closest and dearest and most intimate friend.

I also understood that it’s has a meaning of like a love that it’s chosen, it’s reciprocal.

So it’s based the husband loves the wife, the wife loves the husband.

It is to express like that bond of friendship.

To show interest and affection.

So that’s kind of a the understanding that that I have.

It’s different from the other types of love in the scripture.

It’s more a friendship, a companionship type of love, yeah, Which is so interesting because we do hear a lot about the agape love, which is very sacrificial love.

But this, you know, being the the friendship, love and what’s interesting that I was studying up on this word as well.

I might butcher the pronunciation here, Phil, Andreas love that it’s the only place in the Bible at that word is used.

So it’s a very unique type of love.

I just think it’s interesting that we have to learn this quality.

We have to learn how to be a friend to our husband because it doesn’t necessarily come naturally.

Maybe because there are some differences between men and women, and so we can bristle against those differences and want to change men and make them more like women.

But when we understand that God designed men with these specific qualities and we learn to appreciate and enjoy them, be thankful for them, I think that helps us in our ability to be friends with her husband.

That’s right.

And we’re a companion, you know, it says it’s not good for men to be alone.

So it has this idea that we’re coming alongside and helping and.
And fit and compliment our husbands.

So it’s really a beautiful idea.

You know, that we’re equal and yet have different roles.

I heard one lady who was teaching a Titus Two session, she said something that really stuck with me.

She said that men are some of the loneliest people on the planet.

You know, women are just a little more naturally relational and and quick to have friends.

And so it’s so important that you know if you’re married or if you will be married someday, that you make that a priority in your life, that you are called to be your husband’s friend and help me.

And this is the same lady also spoke to, she said so many women are on their husband’s back trying to change them.

She said they need to come to his side and be his friend and companion instead and let God change the areas in their life that they need changing.

But it’s not our job to do that.

We are just called to be the friend and lover and God does the rest.

So this scriptures instruct that the older women are to train younger women how to do this.

And I think that’s so interesting that we have God’s Word, we have the Holy Spirit, and yet He puts this instruction in His word that we need this added element in order to grow in this area.

So can you help us understand why we would need an example and a role model in this way?

I think that it’s throughout the scripture that word of be imitators and we learned so much by example.

I think it’s not only that the older women are to teach by words, but by their example and.
I see that throughout like in First Thessalonians when six, they became imitators of us and the Lord were to pursue and model and imitate.

And that’s how God designed it.

We follow Christ and then we say follow us as we follow Christ.

So I think that’s just in in the scriptures that even though we have the word of God and we we also are to follow examples.

I was thinking of I I really was helpful.

I went.

To our class the other day, and it was Brad Clausen was teaching on the example of leaders and one of the things he said.

This really helped me because I thought, how can we say we follow Christ, Follow me as I follow Christ?

That seems like such a bold statement, but one thing he was talking about is that.

We can be examples of self denying, self giving goodness that’s not in ourselves but in God.

That really helped me to understand.

And so as the older women, I think we can help the younger women by being examples of how to love our husbands by having them in our lives.

Seeing as how we interact with our husbands, how we respond.

I found that often, I thought, I’m teaching a younger woman.

Something from the scripture having a Bible study and later they say, oh, what I really noticed is that how you responded to Brian in this situation.

So I’m realizing I’m probably teaching more by how I’m acting and behaving and my example than even what I’m sometimes teaching by word.

So that’s a good reminder for myself that people are watching.

Another thing that he said that was helpful is.

We want to keep an eye on the one who knows the way to the goal and who is going there.

And so we need to be living that out ourselves as women so that we can be an example to the younger women.

Just think that even Proverbs, you know, it’s practical application of biblical principles and.

So I just think it’s so important that we have the right goal, Christ, and that we’re living it out so that the younger women can have a model to look at.

We know that we’re not perfect.

We know we’ve not attained it.

Paul said that at all.

I feel very needy that I need the Lord and His grace each day and every moment.

But I do think that we are to be living it out to teach what’s good and then to train the younger women and it has that idea of bringing them to their senses, right, to bring them back.

And I I really see that sometimes and I can be this.

But with younger women maybe they’re going in a whole other direction and we have that desire and and training.

We need to be training and bringing them back to their senses of what really the scriptural model is.

Yeah, because it can be so easy to just succumb to our own thinking and our own selfishness and what the world says a relationship should look like or be like or feel like.

Again, God desires that we have full and rich and vibrant relationships, and He’s given us the instructions for how to do that.

And so if we live out these principles and we learn from older women, you know, this is the Lord wants our life to be blessed.

He’s not trying to withhold good from us.

He wants us to enjoy vibrant marriages that give glory to Him and have harmony.

You said, Heidi, that you need the Lord’s strength in this, and I think that’s such a good reminder that the only way we’re able to live the Christian life is through the Lord’s power.

Makes me think of Second Peter 1/3.

His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness through the full knowledge of Him who called us by his own glory and excellence.

And so we are dependent on him, relying on him, obedient to him.

And then that’s where we start producing the fruit of the Spirit and able to walk in these virtues through his strength.

But it’s not something we can do on our own, just mustering our own strength and pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps.

But we are just leaning on the Lord every step of the way in humility, knowing, acknowledging we don’t have the the ability to do this well, we need Him.

So this next question, I’m feel like it gets down to the real practical aspect of living this out.

So what are attitudes and actions that single women can weed out now that would be a hindrance in their ability to love their husbands in the future?

That’s a very good question and humble also I would say like you just said, first priority is relationship with the Lord and so being spirit filled.

Is what we’re aiming for.

I would say the things that to to take out or the things to put out of our lives.

I would say is we just have a big problem with being selfish.

I would say that we just need to remember our purpose is to glorify God and to not seek ourselves and what just what we want.

I would say to root out bitterness.

We had talked about this earlier.

I see sometimes with single woman and I I do understand, I’m very compassionate, have many single friends.

But there’s sometimes a point where maybe, you know, maybe not being asked out or difficulties wanting to be married and maybe seeing the men aren’t doing what we want them to do, that we can develop this kind of bitterness or I guess maybe anger against men.

I would say another one is to.
To really work on not being a quarrelsome person, it says that in Proverbs a few times, But Proverbs 21 nine, it is better to live in a corner of the housetop than in a house shared with the quarrelsome wife.

So I looked up that word with kind of synonyms of quarrelsome and you know, this kind of gets to the heart of things.

But somebody that’s argumentative, rude, pugnacious, cross, contentious, aggressive.

Irritated.

So I would say those types of heart attitudes that I would fight against as a single women and as a married woman.

And I just love to what the opposite of that was.

And I thought, this is interesting, is to be peaceable, peaceful, non aggressive, amiable, pleasant.

So to be, as Chris Mueller put it in his book Let the women be women.

But he said to be likable.

And I thought that was really good.

And I think you’re not being contentious or curlsome, but being likable.

So I would say another thing to put off.

And I’ve just noticed this because I do counsel young women and have also just friendships with younger women to not be emotionally intimate with a man without commitment.

And I really have seen this area.

So just how to really save yourself to be your husband’s best friend?

And if this person that you’re friends with is not somebody that has the qualities or the characters, somebody that you’re interested in marrying, but you’re kind of at this emotional level with them, I would not encourage that to be really have really close guy friends.

I mean I think you can share on spiritual you know spiritual things about the Lord but just really that heart level of intimacy and that’s not your husband I would guard against that’s a good good thing for us to remember again because we’re so relational and we like to connect heart to heart and but yeah, guarding our heart in that way is important.

I really appreciated how you brought out bitterness to is one of the qualities that we should be putting off.

I have some some things I wrote down here from the book the excellent wife by Martha Peace.

And she goes through a whole thing on bitterness.

And she talks about how if you’re someone who is in a habit of if you take a account a wrong suffered or you’re one who likes to keep a record of wrongs, that that’s a symptom of bitterness.

And you need to be able to put that off and roll the burden on the Lord, repent, ask for forgiveness, but not be one who stores up those things.

She also.
And again bitterness.

We’ve talked about this before in previous episodes, but it’s really difficult to diagnose because you feel so justified in your response to something challenging or difficult or difficult person in your life.

So some of the symptoms of bitterness, and this is from the list that Martha Peace gave in her book.

She said these are symptoms of bitterness, gossip and slander, ungrateful and complaining.

You judge motives yourself centered excessive sorrow, vengeful brooding loss of joy.

And then the last one she gives on this list is a critical or judgmental attitude.

And some of those surprised me.

I wouldn’t have necessarily put them in the category of bitterness.

But if you see those those attitudes in your heart, then you know, be careful, root out that root of bitterness because as we know, it doesn’t just stop with you, it affects other people in your life.

It can corrupt many.

So yeah, good, good thing to be putting off.

But what are on the flip side?

What are the attitudes that the positive attitudes that we should be cultivating now that will make loving our husbands easier?

Yeah, I think again with the scripture teaches to, I would say to study what the Bible says about marriage, our roles to really meditate on that, to understand that.

I also was thinking of First Corinthians 13, which you know 4 through 7 what love is and love is patient and kind.

Love does not envy or boast is not arrogant or rude.

It does not insist on its own way, is not irritable, resentful.

It does not rejoice it wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth.

Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things.

So I think even practicing believing the best about others, we don’t know people’s motives.

I think when you hear something, believe unless there’s a reason not to.

Where you they’ve lost trust to encourage them to build up.

Others and you can practice that with anybody and your family members with other sisters and the Lord brothers and the Lord.

I think to be thankful I was thinking about in Colossians this list.

I mean really it’s just all in the scripture, you know, in Colossians 3.

Just love this.

And chapter 3 verses 12 through 15.

Put on then as God’s chosen one, holy and beloved, Compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness and patience bearing with one another.

If anyone has a complaint against another, forgiving each other as a Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

And above all these put on love, which finds everything together in perfect harmony.

And I thought, isn’t that just beautiful?

That’s really what we need to be doing, you know, having the mind of Christ.

So how to prepare to love your husbands.

I think these are what we should be living out and exactly what you said.

I think bitterness really we can justify, but God calls us to forgive as we’ve been forgiven and it says I just love this If anyone has a complaint against another forgiving each other.

So that’s even that heart attitude.

You know when we have in our hearts that.

Whatever you’re holding against somebody, if we can be dealing with sin in our own lives, that’s what I always encourage young women.

You cannot go and change anybody.

You’re responsible for your your heart and I think to be rooting out sin in our own lives, to be true worshippers think to be walking with the Lord daily.

You know, putting off putting on what we just read now, really loving the Lord.

I really think that that’s really the rude.

I mean, what godly husband wouldn’t want a wife who was joyful and filled with this Holy Spirit?

You know, that’s it.

You know when I meet with other gals, you know, I do have my friends and try to practice the this older women teaching the younger women.

But you know, usually we’re just dealing with our own, you know, sin issues, confessing that.

How do we, what does the Bible say about that?

What’s God teaching us?

Trying to practice thankfulness, having your blessings.

So if I have somebody come to me in there, maybe, you know, being critical or complaining, just okay, what can we changing that, right.

What can we thank the Lord about?

What are things, what are blessings right now that you can see.

And I think if we’re doing that in our own lives and that is going to prepare us for marriage.

So, so good, Heidi.

And really appreciate how you talked about just weeding out sin in your own life.

And if you get into that habit because like you said, we can’t change other people even as if we want to, That is the work of the Lord.

And so I know that could be a temptation for a wife to want to do that to her husband.

So just taking 100% responsibility for your side of the equation and for your sin and growing.

And you, you mentioned the book Let the Women Be Women by Chris Mueller.

I also have that sitting open right now in front of me with lots of underlinings.

And he does go into detail in the book about, you know, what makes a woman likable, and it’s truly the fruit of the Spirit.

If you’re walking closely with the Lord, like who doesn’t want to be around someone who is joyful, peaceful, servanthearted?

Those are the qualities that are attractive and will be attractive to the right man.

And so we should be seeking to cultivate and they will just bless our lives and the lives of others around us all throughout our lives.

And how do we grow in those things?

We have to put off sin and put on.

And we do that through the word, through dependent on the Holy Spirit, through prayer.

God has given us means, but we are to avail ourself of those means in order to grow and to learn from older women who have gone before us and how to do these things.

Well, Heidi, you and your husband are.

You’ve been married many years and you still to this day have a close friendship.

Anyone who spends time with you as a couple can see that just love and affection that you both have for each other and that mutual respect and trust.

So how, I’m just so curious, how have you maintained that after so many years of marriage?

I mean, we look around at so many marriages that seem like the couple is just kind of doing their duty.

They’re obedient, but it’s not like they have that inward heart affection for each other anymore.

So how have you and Brian kept that spark and that affection for each other after so many years?

First I want to say God’s grace and glory be to God.

We are so thankful for His mercy towards us sinners.

We’ve been married for 37 years.

We met.
In high school.

So we were high school sweethearts, so we have a lot in common.

We we had some of the same teachers, Brian’s grandma, my grandma, sorry was Brian’s first grade teacher.

So we were pretty, have a really strong similar background.

Although our families are from different planets, we kind of would joke about that, meaning how we were raised.

So I would say first of all, we’re so thankful that we had good examples when we came to Grace Community Church.

We’re just so thankful to have real life examples and to have people teach us.

I remember being in some wives and Elizabeth George is one of the teachers and she really taught on practically how to love your husband and how to pray for your husband.

And I am so appreciative of that formal teaching and then also just the observing that I was able to do with people at Grace.

Church.

I was in college when I came down.

I came down to LA to go to college and Chris Mueller was our teacher.

So I remember hearing all of this that’s in his book back in the day, and that just transformed me.

I was just so eager to learn.

I was a new believer, had not been taught very much.

So that was just so helpful and I would say just reading good books.

Also Martha Peace book on her excellent wife book.

Titus Two Book.

Creative counterpart Spiritual Mothering by Susan Hunt.

There’s just several that were very helpful because we went on the field to Ukraine.

I had turned 27 on the airplane.

I had two children at the time.

So when we moved there, I didn’t have those same examples.

So a lot of what I learned was really by reading, but I would say just practically, I would say what’s really helped us.

And we pray together regularly and we pray in the morning.

We pray when our hearts are troubled.

We pray.

When others ask us to pray for them, we often stop and pray.

I do think that has been huge.

I just practice, you know, love covers a multitude of sins.

And I would say when you’re married, we just, you just have to be really careful.

There’s kind of preferences or things maybe that are irritating at times, but just choosing not to make a deal about that, I would say to not nitpick at each other.

I really try not to do that.

Brian doesn’t do that to me.

Does that mean I don’t ever bring things up?

No.

I mean if if I’m not afraid of Brian, if there was something ongoing sin or maybe something with the kids, I would bring that up to him.

But I try to do it not in a harsh way or and try to do it with kindness.

So I would just say really practicing.

We choose to forgive one another as crisis, forgiving us.

I think that’s really key.

I think that’s really key.

I remember early on this is with Brian’s sister, Cheryl.

We were running when we were first married.

Cheryl and I and I remember memorizing Proverbs 31 and just the first.

You know, the heart of her husband.

Trust in her and he will have no lack of gain.

Just really struck me.

I was. 19 When I got married and I’m like, wow, what does that mean?

And how can I build that trust with my husband?

What that means?

And I learned this actually from Elizabeth George way back in the day, just not speaking negatively about my husband.

I really don’t.

If there was a problem, I could see going to an older woman, you know, it’s something that maybe I need to work on.

But just really reading that out, I don’t speak negatively about him behind his back.

I keep what he says and confidence.

Even with like money, like I just don’t go spend a lot of money without asking him first.

I don’t make appointments usually without asking him or counseling speaking engagements without checking with him.

It’s not because I’m afraid of his reaction, it’s because I am wanting to minister to him and he’s my primary ministry and if I say yes to something it might mean that he can’t do what he needs to do.

So just practicing that over the years.

And we have good communication.

I would say we can talk openly and freely with one another.

He’s not afraid to bring things up with me.

I’m not afraid to bring things up with him.

We believe the best about each other.

I would say we try to build one another up and not tear each other down.

My husband’s so encouraging to me, so I feel like I kind of have it easy, honestly.

But he writes cards to me.

He encourages me.

He thinks I’m the best.

I mean, so I really.

I mean, my situations may be easier than some, but you know, we do try to really practice that.

I would say another big one is not letting the sun go down on your anger.

I would say that one of the things that we practice is, you know, don’t delay to work out differences or conflict and not going to bed angry.

I’m not resolving that.

I think it just means that we need to resolve things as quickly as possible.

So for instance, if we have some kind of disagreement and we’re not getting like we actually don’t invite anybody over.

And we’ve even had this when because we when somebody has come to the door and we have had some kind of conflict, we actually ask forgiveness and work it out before we open the door.

We just don’t want to have other people.

Even in our home because it’s just not a pleasant have you been in homes where it’s a tense atmosphere?

We want to be spirit filled, we want to be have peace between us before we have others in our lives.

I’ve even heard someone say this that you know when it talks about that not having letting Satan have an end basically.

I forget how it goes exactly and Ephesians, but that when we don’t really work out.

Our problems or we go to bed and our anger, it’s like you’ve allowed Satan into your home like and it’s just it’s serious that we work out our differences, that we work out those things.

We don’t have anger against each other so we need to resolve those conflicts quickly and we really do try to practice that.

We want to have the sweet aroma of Christ in our home.

I would say another thing is regarding 1 another’s more important than ourselves.

We try to enter into each other’s interests, so.
Brian, this is funny to me, but Brian loves Hebrew grammar and when I was in college he said, oh, can you take Modern Hebrew?

And OK, I need that requirement.

So I took Modern Hebrew and so I entered in then, but then we moved to Israel where I’ve taken many classes on Hebrew, Modern Hebrew and I’ve had to learn Hebrew grammar.

So that has made him very happy that I have entered into that area.

It’s just an interesting one, I would say.

Also that this is funny.

I studied design and I love color and my husband is colorblind.

He still tries to like enter in and like appreciate what I love, you know?

And I try to bring beauty into our home and he’s he appreciates it and tries to enter in as much as he can on that area.

I would say things that we try to enter in into each other’s interest.

I think I’ve learned to like hiking more, for instance.

He likes archaeological sites.

I do go to those.

We like going to museums, showing hospitality, doing ministry together.

And we’ve gone on a lot of adventures.

We’ve traveled well, first to Ukraine and then Israel, but also throughout Europe, long road trips.

And I’m so thankful, you know, that I said yes to all that because we have so many great memories, but it’s just really.

Our hearts are bound together.

Recently we went to Ukraine and you know there’s a war going on there.

So the the first time he went by himself this year and I didn’t go.

He just wanted to kind of see how it was.

And the next time he said I really want you to go and said okay honey, I’ll go.

And so we went and that was really a blessing.

The third time, I wasn’t quite so sure about it.

I have two adult children that are still at home or were at home at the time and.

Just a lot to do here and it wasn’t my preference to go back to the war zone.

But he’s he just really said, you know I really want you to go you know, and I said sure, you know, I just know that that’s you know, I’m to be submissive to my husband and rarely does he ask me to do things that are maybe that difficult.

And the Lord blessed incredibly our last trip to Ukraine.

So I just see such a blessing and.

Going along with my husband’s desire for serving and adventure, even when it’s maybe a little bit daunting, is going to Israel and Ukraine at this point, but trusting the Lord.

And I would just say those are just some things that I could think of that have helped us to stay close.

I loved all those.

And it goes back to what we were talking about at the beginning of being our husband’s friend and being willing to do the things that they like to do.

And I I feel like men and maybe more than women just enjoy having fun and playing.

And so if you can be like their playmate and enjoy their hobbies with them and like I mean even if it’s something like golf or something you would not don’t have a natural proclivity to.

You can grow to like something and and that shows you putting their interests above your own.

Like you already spoke to, you touched on submission and this episode in particular isn’t covering that topic.

But just curious if you had any thoughts on that that you wanted to share with the listeners on what that’s look like in your marriage, maybe flush that out a little bit more and maybe even for single women some cautions for maybe an unhealthy type of submission to men?

Yes, I love that topic and might seem strange, but I really do.

I think that we’re submitting unto the Lord, and when we think about it that way, and Jesus submitted to the Father, it really helps.

To understand what submission is, as Martha P says in her book, there’s not this doormat submission that we could never maybe talk to her husband’s or confront them.

This does not mean submission that we would go along if he was in sin and asking us to sin to do that.

This is an attitude.

This is a heart attitude of choosing to follow.

I remember Elizabeth George bringing this up almost like a bucking Bronco.

You know, like don’t buck against your husband.

And you know, if he says she was teaching us this.

And this really helped me when I was a young wife because this is not natural.

She would just say if he wants to do something, for instance, let’s say Brian wants to go to McDonald’s, maybe that’s not my favorite place to stop when we’re traveling.

I just say, you know, sure, honey, it’s not a big deal.

You know, I could just go along with that.

He’s not asking me to go to the moon, you know, it’s not a big deal.

So I think to respect him, to not just be disagreeable.

We’ve had bigger decisions.

But because I think the Lord was teaching me that on smaller issues when my husband called me from seminary.

This is back in the day.

We did not have cell phones.

This is 1991 I believe, when he called me from seminary and says honey.

Either we’re going to go to Russia or Ukraine.

Now, I had heard some of the talks from Bob Probus.

I would sound like it’s completely out of the blue.

But this is how it was.

And my first words were sure, honey, and I believe I said it.

Oh my goodness.

Now I said it.

I can’t go back on my word.

But there is this, this deep sense that I do believe he’s danced before the Lord, right?

And there have been times where maybe.

It’s something I think women do kind of sense situations, or people maybe a little better or maybe it’s just the best decision.

But, you know, I’ve talked to him and he says no, I think we should do it.

You know, I go with that.

And if it doesn’t work out exactly as we thought, I don’t bring that back up to him.

You know, I trust the Lord and I trust the Lord that he will lead me.

We have other authorities in our lives, right?

With elders.

But we are going to submit to our own husband.

So I think that’s kind of maybe what you’re touching on.

And I do believe strongly that we as young women need to be careful that we’re not just submitting to some man and and even in elders is a plurality of elders, right.

So I think this is an area that women do need to be careful of and if is there is a man that’s demanding somehow that you’re submissive and you’re naughty or just maybe dating.

There’s something wrong there and I don’t even think men, married men should ever say you need to submit to me.

I think that I think that’s a that’s a response.

As women we should have because we believe God’s word.

But it’s from the beginning with Genesis three that the man will roll over him.

And I think the woman is, you know, used to putting the authority there that her desirably for her husband and I think that’s leadership.

So I think it’s just from the beginning.

This conflict, I would say of men and women are husbands and wives.

Yeah, Thank you so much for shedding some more light on that and helping explain it to us.

And yeah, like you said, it’s a response, something that we offer.

It’s not something that can be demanded of that could show some some danger signs there if a man that is interested in you is, is asking that of you in a time when you’re not married.

So.

Well, Heidi, so many helpful thoughts.

Really practical wisdom.

That you shared and excited to to keep this stored away and just keep learning how to apply these Titus to principles and be growing in this even at this stage of life.

Do you have any last parting thoughts you want to leave with the listeners today?

I’m just so thankful that Christi, you have this podcast and I think it’s important.

I love that you are desiring to.

Have young women that want to be obedient to Christ.

It really encourages my heart.

And just have so many special friendships with single women.

They’re not distracted, like they’re singly devoted to Christ.

I just want to encourage you single women that you are a tremendous encouragement to us married women also and it’s mutual friendship.

So I think that’s the main thing.

Thank you.

Well, it was a joy having you on today and I appreciate your time.

Thank you very much.