EP 87

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, home making, finances, relationships and singleness from the God fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hello everyone, You are back for another episode, which probably means you are finding these conversations valuable in your own growth and godliness. And if that is true, I would invite you to consider supporting the podcast. You can find that donation link in the show notes and also on our website smiling@thefuturepodcast.com. And not only will your donations help keep this podcast ad free, because nobody wants to suffer through those, but now we are a bona fide non profit, so all your donations are tax deductible. The topic of fear really strikes a sensitive chord with so many of us, and those who live within its grip as a regular part of life know how paralyzing it can be and how it can cause you to shrink back from living a full and productive Christian life. My guest today, Pastor Philip Decorsi, helps us renew our minds by focusing on stabilizing truths about God that will produce peace and courage when we fully embrace them. So here is my conversation with Philip Decorsi.

Well, thank you for joining me on this episode. Philip de Corsi, you have served the Lord in pastoral ministry most of your life and authored several books along the way, one of which is called Take Cover, Finding Peace and God’s Protection and also a booklet on Overcoming Anxiety and Fear. But before we jump into the topic, would you share more about yourself and also some of the experiences of your life that have been the impetus for this study for yourself?

Sure. Christi, thank you for joining. Let me join you on your podcast and with your listeners. And it’s a. It’s a join, a privilege, and I trust the the broadcast. Is is a. Blessing to all and especially those who are of an anxious in this position. So I’m 62, so I have a long story to tell, but we’ll we’ll get down to the basics. Maybe by accent alone people might determine I’m not from the North America. I’m actually originally from Belfast in Northern Ireland. Whereas as born came to Christ at the age of 16, was an engineer and a police officer for some years before I felt the call to the gospel ministry and became a Baptist pastor. During that time I met my wife June, who’s a Bonnie Lassie from Scotland. We were married in Scotland, Kilt and all. God has blessed us with three wonderful daughters and now 2 wonderful granddaughter. So it’s for me it’s girls, girls, girls. So I’ve taken up the game of golf just to stay sane and all of that.

But you know pastored in Northern Ireland and I believe you are a member of Grace community and your work at Grace too. Well, my story in America intersects with your your pastor. I’m totally indebted to the friendship and involvement of doctor John MacArthur in my life. He came actually to Northern Ireland and preached for me at my invitation during the Troubles in Northern Ireland, very few well known preachers were willing to come into a kind of war zone. But we know John. He’s fearless and he’s courageous and he came, he actually a little footnote. He came partly because his father, Jack MacArthur, had come to Northern Ireland in the 1950s, if my memory serves me right, to be an evangelist and uh, spoke in soccer stadiums and. In in in different. Places in Belfast and Christi during that time believe Grant. My father came to Christ. And so it’s just it’s, you know, God’s world is a small world, and Providence is a wonderful thing. And so when I invited John, he didn’t know me from Adam, and yet he came. Partly just because he’s a gracious man and he’s willing to serve the church across the world, even in a trouble spot like Northern Ireland. But. There was that. Impetus from his father. So out of that, my life changed because John invited me to come out to shepherds in 1990. I think it was three or two, and saw something at Grace community at the master seminary that just captured my imagination and my interest. I’d been to Bible college, but there was a a level of commitment to the word of God, its efficiency, the preaching of it, with total devotion to letting the Bible speak. And and then there was an alignment theologically with where I was. And so in John’s kindness and through a family, I think you know that George and Anna Sanders, through their generosity, I was offered an opportunity to come to the masters seminary. And after time of praying that reflecting, we did. And Jim and I come out in around 1993 with three little girls. And I’ll say this just publicly again, I’m totally indebted to John’s kindness and mentoring and interest in my ministry. I’m not where I’m at, humanly speaking today without him. And the folks at Grace Community loved on us, which they’ve done the so, so many young men across the country and across the world. So that’s kind of where it’s at right now. I’ve pastored in Santa Clarita, used to pastor plaster Rita Baptist. My three daughters went through the Master Assembly for over a decade. I was on the board at the Masters University in seminary and we went to Ohio and then back here to Orange County and we’ve been at Kindred Community Church for some 17 years and most of our staff are TMS graduates.

Now all of that said back to the point you wanted me to make forgive me, what was the impetus to the book. Well, look, as a pastor, Christi, you know, I, I, I just deal with people and I think anxiety and fear is just a reality. Someone said I think there’s some something like 365 fear knots in the Bible and you know, we can superimpose that on the fact there’s 365 days in a year and I think. God’s sending us a message done on any. Given day of the week. He doesn’t want us to be fearful or anxious in an unbiblical manner. Hopefully we’ll. Get into There is a distinction. Between good anxiety and bad anxiety. But but I’ve I’ve. Dealt with people who are what? What Paul says to Timothy her who are gripped by a spirit of fear, where it dominates them and paralyzes them and makes them, you know, spiritually inconsequential or ineffective. And so And then during my time in Northern Ireland, Christi I was six years in the RUC, the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I was more likely to die off duty than on duty. I was the target of the IRAI lost my Sergeant, who was shot dead. Coming into the station, I checked my car every morning for booby traps. I watched where I went when I was a lay preacher. I still carried a weapon because the IRA would shoot us on the street, on the golf course, coming out of church. And so I had myself to wrestle through with the fear of death, with the fear of being killed, kidnapped, tortured, blowing up, losing my legs in a car, booby trap or whatever. And the book is kind of working through that and reminding myself of the promises of God. Reminding myself I live between the hedges of God’s Providence. And I had a little statement with this. I’ll stop. I I something really helped me where I came to this idea. I forget I probably stole it or borrowed it or whatever that security and will include peace and not right or a sense of well-being. Security is not the absence of danger. I mean I just couldn’t escape. But as a police officer day and night, I could have been killed in uniform, out of uniform. So if I’m looking security, I’m not going to find it by running from danger because I can’t run far enough. So security is not the absence of danger. Security is the presence of God. And I had the center my life through prayer, the Scriptures, fellowship with God’s people, sitting under sound doctrine to remind myself. That I live. Between the hedges of God’s Providence, all my days have been written down in his book. So even if the IRA killed me, they didn’t kill me outside the sovereign will of God. And the worst they could do with me was dispatch me to heaven. So all of that I just thought through. Put some thoughts down both in that book that you holding in Shepherd’s Press a few years ago asked me to do a little book on help. I’m anxious. So it’s just a real thing. You know, One last thought, 1st Thessalonians 5 for Pastors. We find it very interesting because Paul kind of categorizes some of your congregation and he says, look, there’s the unruly. You’ve got to confront him, but he also says and there’s a feeble minded you’ve got to comfort him. And so I’m conscious and every Sunday I go up into the pulpit at Kindred. I’ve got feeble minded believers. Whose minds are being distracted and his hearts are being torn. And I want to bring the comfort of the gospel. Doctor Ivor Oakley at the Irish Baptist College in Belfast taught us this. I shared this with our pastoral staff this week. No man lacks for a congregation when he preaches. You know comfort when you know you’ll never lack for a congregation if you preach. The healing balm and and the peace. Giving gospel and so sorry, long answer, but I hope that introduces me to your listeners.

It does. Thank you. And I will link both of those books in the show notes for the listeners if they would like to read more about that. And I really appreciated how you even touched on the fact that there is natural fear. It’s a God-given emotion. It’s a response to danger. You know, it’s healthy type of fear that we should possess. But then there’s an unhealthy, sinful type of fear. And So what we’re going to be talking about through the this episode is how do we avoid that, as you called it, like the paralyzing type of sinful fear that makes you ineffective as a Christian and just kind of binds you in its power. So I would love if you would talk a little more. How do we understand the difference between those types of fear in our own heart?

Yeah, well, let’s, let’s. Go down those categories. In fact, that was. I think we’ll recommend some books at the end. We and Mack and Josh Mack have written a book called Courage, and in it they talk about these three categories which I find very helpful. One, natural fear, 2. Sinful fear, and three, Holy fear. So, so #1, natural Fear. I mean, I came across a little statement a while ago. Christi, don’t be afraid to be afraid. There’s a place to be afraid. It’s a natural. It’s a God-given emotion. It’s a red light on the dashboard of life. It’s it’s helpful. It’s even what we may call prudence. It’s the fool that doesn’t fear. It’s it’s the prudent man, the prudent woman who looks at life and said, hey, life is full of dangers and traps and booby traps and temptations and and you know so as a police officer. I would have been a fool not to take the threat I lived under by the IRA. And so I feared them in in that natural sense. And I took precautions. I carried my weapon. I changed my driving habits so that I didn’t make myself in a a sitting duck for their assassination plots.

I think about the Hebrews. Is it 11-7 somewhere in and around there where it says, and Noah, moved by fear, saved his house. That’s a clean fear. That’s a good fear. That’s a natural fear. I mean, think about Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane, where where some as he anticipated not just the physical suffering but the trauma of being made sin for us, of making that atoning act, that substitution. He sacrificed that moment of desolation and separation from his father as he bore our sin. Something emotionally traumatic was going on in Gethsemane where he you know he sweat great drops of blood and and but that that was a in a sense it was a healthy fear it was a natural for Jesus knew what he was about to enter upon was something awful and any and the angels minister to him and and he submits himself to the father’s will then you’ve got sinful fear which we’ll we’ll you know let’s talk about a little bit more in a moment and how to distinguish that between good fear and natural fear. But the sinful fear is forbidden. It’s, you know, I think there might be some symptoms of that paralysis. Right. Being double minded, you know we’re we’re, you know you just don’t move forward. It captures you. There’s that spirit of fear that imbibes you and you get into that kind of Proverbs 2213 scenario and where the, you know there’s a lion on the street so I can’t go out. Everything’s fear and anxiety, a phobia. But James tells us we can’t be double mind. In fact, the word anxiety, I believe means. Divided mind, you’re being torn. Right. Then it would lead to disobedience. I think that’s another sign you want to look at. Have I moved between natural and sinful fear? In fact, let me back up. I think this is an interesting study. The same Greek word that’s used for care or anxiety in Matthew 6, which is forbidden, is the same Greek word that Paul uses in 2nd Corinthians 11 for hey, I have the care of the church on my heart on a daily basis. So it’s the it’s it’s the same word, but it One is good and forbidden, one is good and acceptable, one is forbidden and wrong.

And how do we know when we have moved from that? Normal anxiety Should be anxious about your child’s health. You should be anxious about your spiritual well-being. You should be caring about where our cultures at and where our nation is going. Those things should weigh on us. Nothing wrong with that. But when does that become sinful? As I’ve said, I think paralysis is a good evidence of that. Think about the guy with the one talent who buried it because he feared his master and he gets criticized as being wicked and lazy, but he was paralyzed by fear. He was inactive. He wasn’t. Moving forward, disobedience were like the disciples we. Hide out of fear when we should be preaching the gospel to people all around us. I think another evidence might be it’s a kind of subset of double minded. But you’re not at rest. You just are not enjoying peace. It’s Martha, right? Martha. Martha, you’re troubled about many things, but one thing is needful. You’ve got this mental ping pong going on. And I think maybe one other measure would be I think about man more than I do about God. I think about my my, my situation that’s troubling me, my health diagnosis, my relationship issue, my whatever. That’s bigger to me than the God who is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient. Such a sign when when the thought of your anxiety is dominating you to the point of overshadowing the greatness of God. I think all of those things are are measures. And then you’ve got just holy fear, which is the good fear, the clean fear. And that’s fearing God having a proper perspective on who he is and how we relate life to him. I don’t know if you want to delve into any of that.

No, I I really appreciated how you brought out some of those symptoms of sinful fear. Some other ones that I have on my list here is you are constantly thinking the what ifs of situations. So you are conjugating all of these scenarios that are not true in your mind. And my encouragement would be that you should write down what those specific fears are and then find the scripture that will be the truth. You need to combat that fear. So be very targeted in your approach to how you are fighting fear in your heart. I think you said, you know it causes you to disobey God’s commands, but it can also keep us from obeying God if we’re not fulfilling our responsibilities because were fearful about something that would be an unhealthy, sinful type of fear. And then like you said it, it makes you act selfishly. And I just think of the verse, perfect love casts out fear, and love is the opposite of fear. It actually produces courage. You see that with a parent who rescues their child from a dangerous situation putting themselves in harm’s way. And so you see, love is the courage that you need is the opposite of fear.

Yeah, man, I love that. I love that. That mean what proverbs is what the, you know, the fear of man is a snare. I mean I like that image. Fear is a snare. It’s a it’s a it’s a get caught up in its net. You get imprisoned and and you get snared in your circumstance you get snared as you said in the what ifs, you get snared to playing like those scenarios. I think another evidence might be, and this is just a practical one, loss of sleep. The fact that you can’t sleep, you can’t, you know, like Psalm 3 and four, where you know, you lay down your head knowing that you’re safe because God neither slumbers nor sleeps, and you wake up in the morning knowing that God watched over you during the night. So look, we’ve all had sleepless nights, and some of those may be needed and necessary, but as a pattern, I think, you know, there can be physical symptoms, right? You know a Christi that could just be that you start to you know your immunity breaks down because you know anxiety has physical and emotional cost to it as well as spiritual. And when you lose sleep, when you’re agitated, when your body’s not at rest and and even you’re beginning to break down your immunity and and health, that’s again a sense that you’ve allowed a spirit of fear. Not just natural fear, occasional fear, but you’ve allowed a a way of thinking to cut a channel in your life where all your phobias and fears and anxieties poured through, and it’s just a bad place to be. The Christ who slept in the back part of the boat is the Christ who’s in our life and can help us sleep.

Amen. And you touched on Fear of Man, and that’s a whole other conversation we could have. And for the listeners, I just have to plug the book that you mentioned, Courage, Fighting Fear with Fear. There’s a whole section in there on the fear of man. There’s also the book when people are big and God is small. And so if that’s a specific area of fear that you struggle with, those are great resources. And you know that that chapter there, just that thought is, is really the heart of this program. And what did the Puritan say? We fear man so much because we fear God so little and and and as I think I mentioned that when our problems are big and God is small, when man is big and God is small, you are clearly over that line between healthy and unhealthy, holy and unholy fear.

Another powerful way for us to identify that in our hearts. Now, how are Christians to understand God’s protection for us when even Christians experience car accidents, cancer, things of that nature? And it seems like there’s a disconnect between our theology of God’s protection and our experience in the world. Can you help us understand that?

Yeah, a disconnect. Or maybe a misinterpretation. Look, I, I, I love statements and sayings that stay with me. And one is this. God has promised us a safe landing, not a smooth crossing. And and so I I when it comes my my idea and I talk about this in the book, my idea of protection or safety or security. God will fulfill that in the ultimate sense and that he will keep my soul. He will preserve my me from evil. When he lays his hand on me and and tell Satan to take his hand off me, no one can pluck me from his hand. So my idea of protection, there’s a there can be a physical element to that. There can be physical healing in that, as God’s will and purposes please him. But I don’t read protection as I’m always going to be healthy. I’m always going to be wealthy. I’m always kind of a circle of friends. You know the road before me is going to be smooth. I love Psalm 5522. Cast your burden on him and he will sustain you. It’s not that he removes the burden. He sustains you in it. We walk through the valley of the shadow of death, not around it. And so that’s why I say either we the disconnect or perhaps the misinterpretation. I think ultimately the promise of protection is spiritual. We’re, you know, for for however long. God preserves our life physically and all of that and provides for our need materially. We’re still going to die. The promise is ultimately first Peter One. We have an inheritance. We have eternal life. We have promises of unending joy. But that’s fulfilled. We see, we see gleams of it and glimpses of it in this life. We enjoy a taste of heaven in this life. But what God is reserving for me by his power is that inheritance. And he’s keeping me for the inheritance. So look, you took about car accidents. My daughter rolled her car couple of Sunday mornings ago, just lost control of the car, ended up on a roof night. God preserved her life. She she didn’t lose her life. There’s a little footnote to that Christi about God’s Providence that the night before she’d called my wife June and said, look, one of the girls has got a little bit of a fever. Mom, can you come over and mind the girls? Nathan, her husband, was playing on our worship team so he left earlier. And my wife June was going over to mind the girls so that Angela could go to 1st service. Then that should scoot home and June would come the second service. So in God’s Providence, the girls weren’t in the car because the first thing Angela said to me and crying when she got out of the ER was that I could have killed the girls. I said, well, humanly speaking, you could have, but you didn’t because the Providence God didn’t allow it. But you know Christi, She could have died and and God still would have been good. He’s preserved her life because I think he must have other things for Angela to do and in his kindness, maybe answer to prayers or whatever. But cancer? Car accidents? Look, I lost Christian friends in Northern Ireland. I was preserved in my office at the church here. I’ve got a framed photo of 335 police officers in Northern Ireland who were murdered, blown up and shot. I anytime I see it, I go. There I go, I but for the grace of God. If I had a lost my life, was God less protective? No. God protects us up to the moment that he decides to take us home. So at that disconnect or that misinterpretation, let’s redefine protection, both in its immediate sense and its ultimate sense. And the greatest protection is this, that we believe in eternal security and we believe in the perseverance of the Saints. And so when I think about protection, I think about the fact that someday I’m going to land safely on God’s golden shore. And he didn’t promise me a a smooth crossing. He promised me grace for it. He promised me all the help I need to be, all that I need to be for Christ while I’m alive. And then no more tears and no more fears and no more death and no more deceased. You know, God brings us through these things, not around them. If you think about many of the promises out, the thinking about Isaiah 43, it’s through the water, It’s through the fire. It’s the, it’s the fourth man in the fire with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. So the protection is not from, but the protections within. Does that make sense?

It does, yeah. So helpful to understand that. And I love how you said supports and helps and provides. I’d love for you to get into what are those? How do we appropriate that type of spiritual protection when we’re in the fire, when we’re in the trials? How do we sense that God’s protection for us? And then also, what can you help us understand the antidote to sinful fear?

Yeah. I mean look we’ve got to fight the sinful fear, natural fear God accepts. It’s it’s a good mechanism mixes prudent and cautious and and then holy fear we want to generate. We want to have a big view of God. We want to tremble out His word. We we want to have a sense of the glory and magnificence of the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. But fighting fear, I wrote down a bunch of things. I don’t know what we’ll all get through. I’ll go through some of them as quickly as I can. Maybe stop after two or three you can jump in and we’ll go back to the list. But number one, we’ve touched on some of these. Fight fear with fear, right? That’s Doctor Mack’s book and and Josh’s book. That’s Matthew 10. You know, don’t fear them. That can kill the body, but fear him who can kill the body and soul in hell? That’s Matthew 10. I I love that story of Hugh Latimer, the Protestant martyr who preached beforehand King Henry and offended him because of his divorces and remarriages and all of that, and was told to come back the next week into Hampton Court and apologized to the king. And I’m paraphrasing here, but it basically gets up in front of the the king and he says, Hugh Latimer, remember that the one before whom you stand can kill your body. And then he says, but then Hugh Latimer remember him who can kill body and soul in hell. And so here’s a man standing before a king and he fights the fear of the king taking his life in a gruesome manner with the fear of God and the fear of hell and the fear of disappointing the deity. So I love that. Let’s fight fear with fear when we have a a big view of God and and we fear God. And in that proper sense, not in a cringing sense, but he’s awesome. And if he’s that big and he’s that glorious, why am I worrying about this little stuff that’s in the palm of his hand And #2 prayer. You know, Philippians 4. You know, be anxious for nothing. That’s an imperative in the in the text. It’s a command. If you don’t do that, you’re disobeying, be anxious for nothing but in everything through prayer. And so you know, we we when we come to the throne of grace, when we when we come before the one who sympathizes with us and is tempted in all points like as we yet without sin, and then gives us the grace and he will never tempt us beyond that which we’re not able to handle. Prayer is wonderful. Look, there’s that old hymn and XX. He was written by a guy from Northern Ireland, if you know, if I might boast a little bit. Joseph Scraven. What a friend we have in Jesus. All our sins and griefs to bear. What a privilege to carry everything to God and prayer, oh what peace we often forfeit. Know what needless pain we bear? All because we do not carry everything to God in prayer. And #3 would be in that same passage, taking thoughts captive. We’re back to, you know, Philippines 48 to 9. In that passage we talks about and the peace of God will guard your heart and the God of peace will be with you. In that context, you don’t only have a call to prayer, you have a call to think upon things which are positive and lovely, not the things that are negative and draining and divide your mind. And that would also be Second Timothy. One verse 7. God has not given us a spirit of fear, but power. That’s power in the Holy Spirit. Love, which you mentioned, casting out fear, and then that one unassigned mind. And that’s the key if if, if worry is a divided mind, we’ve got to bring those ifs. Those buts, those worries about tomorrow in we’ve got a We’ve got a last suit them and bring them back. Those are maverick thoughts. Those are those are you know those are kind of thoughts or are like horses that need to be tamed and brought into subjection to what we know to be true about God. I I forget where I got this analogy. But actually some years ago a guy in our church was one of the main aircraft controllers in LAX and so he invited me one day to go down. It was a blast. I get up into the, you know, the the the tower there at LAX and watch the planes coming in and those were 20 minutes side from all places all over the world and and and the traffic controllers, you know, they’re guiding those planes to land and they’re guiding those planes to take off and and someone used that idea of an analogy. You know when it comes to the runway of life, you and I have got to act like traffic controllers in our minds. What are we going to allow to land and and what are the what are the thoughts we’re going to send away And we don’t do a good job about that and and and we are we alive thoughts the land that we should have sent away and you know and so controlling our mind I think I don’t mean that in some metaphysical sense just meditating on the word align the scriptures you know let our let our thoughts be God’s thoughts. What was it Luther said we can’t stop the birds from flying over our heads but we can stop them from nesting in our hair. So the the thought that that comes in that’s ungodly unholy anxious that’s OK just get rid of it dismiss it move it out and don’t let it settle and create a spirit. So there’s three of 10 you want to come back on any of those you want me to keep going?

So good. I I love that you are talking about thoughts and and I I appreciate how you said that they will come because we do get anxious, worried, sinful thoughts that will infiltrate. We don’t know where they come from, they’re just there. But don’t get stuck there. I think some people can just look at themselves and say what a sinful person I am that I had this thought, and then they’ll just obsess over that thought and it just makes the problem worse because they. And that’s the issue, right? Look, look, that’s our flesh can generate, we can generate unholy thoughts. But, but I think a lot of the time it’s we’ve got a tempter, we’ve got an accuser. He’s willing to plant thoughts in our minds and then you’ve just got a world around you that’s bombarding you with the godless propaganda. So most of the time a lot of the thoughts we don’t control, some of them we generate and we didn’t need to take ownership for that, but a lot of them we don’t. But the issue is when the thought comes then it’s on us to control them And then it’s on us to take the means of grace and the and the and the medicine cabinet of the gospel and and go after these thoughts and rip root them out and throw them away. And and that’s just constant that you know you don’t do that for 15 minutes in the day and then you’re good for the rest of the day. No, I mean was it McShane said for every look itself take two looks at Christ. So that’s the battle. It’s got to be churning and turning our thoughts towards Christ. The gospel, what we know to be true of God and stop believing. Inverted commas. The lies of the enemy or the propaganda of the world or self doubt on on our part. It’s a battle. It’s a battle for the mind for sure.

Yes. And that is how we become sound minded. It doesn’t happen overnight. It takes effort. It takes work. Also appreciated how you talked about prayer. And we seek God through prayer and his peace through prayer. We’re not seeking peace in and of itself, just seeking after the gifts he gives. We’re seeking the God of peace, and so prayer is one of the ways we do that. We cast our cares on the Lord and his peace comes to us. And so it’s that means of peace.

Peace is a byproduct. Peace is not a goal or an end, it’s a byproduct and people go looking for peace. I remember sitting on a flight to I think it was actually to Australia with a girl beside me. And as I got talking to her she said yeah I’m on a I’m I’m travelling the world and trying to discover myself and find peace. And I got an opportunity to share the gospel and I had a little one of one of my little anxiety books and I gave her it. I just said you know what you’ll never find peace by looking at it but you’ll find it when you find the God of peace and and you’re dead right and it’s a major mistake we make. There’s a there’s a great story I think I tell it my book take cover of Philip Brooks who was a a great pulpeteer in New England many years ago and and he was on his church Trinity Church in Boston was near some college campus and his college student was going to his church and was riddled with anxiety and imprisoned by fear. And his his colleague mate said you need to go and talk to Phillips Brooks And so he plucked up the carriage and I think he said, I mean got an appointment with the great preacher and went and saw him and when the guy comes back, he’s very relaxed. He seems much more calm. And his friend, well, it must have done you good. What did Philip Brooks say about your problem? Oh, he says, you know, I started talking to Philip Brooks and I I enjoyed talking him so much that I forgot about my problem and I never brought it up. And I I think that’s just, I hope that’s what happens in prayer. We might go to God and we start talking about our problem, but as we worship, I mean, Paul says and with Thanksgiving, and he tells us in Philippines for to rejoice in the Lord. So I can go and pray, but it can’t just be a shopping list, right? I go. And as I pray to this God, I’m reminded of how great he is. Glorious, holy. There’s nothing too difficult for him. And I think like that student with Philip Brooks, if you just go and talk to the Lord and have a conversation with him and truly understand who you’re talking to, your problems begin to melt away. And and you half the times you go, Lord, I’m sorry I’ve come to talk about this, because it’s ridiculous in the light of who you are.

Yeah. And I think so many of us can make our prayer list, that grocery list of just rehashing all of our problems again. And then we’re fixating on our problems. And we’re not really praying. We’re not sitting there worshipping and thinking how great God is. And one quote from your book is about it moves God from the circumference to the center and delivers us from the distortion of self absorption and the fears of the present so so critical that our worship and our prayer be God centered and not man centered. But I’d love for you to continue going through your list.

Yeah, let me go through here quickly. I mean, we kind of touch the number 4 gratitude or I could substitute that for Joy, right. Philippines 4/4 in the In the passage in this pericope there, that’s all about anxiety. And he says rejoice in the Lord. And again I say I love it when the biblical writers say again, because sometimes you don’t get it the first time. You know they they’re not looking for perfect Christians that kneel it all down 1st at first shot, he says, Look, can I remind you again, Rejoice in the Lord. Not your circumstances, not the health report, not the stuff that worries you. But but if you rejoice in the Lord, his nothing will separate you from His love. His mercy abides. He’s yours forever, and He promises you joy that’s unspeakable and full of glory. #5 would be just again, the promises of scripture. It kind of ties in right to putting off, putting on. So I’ve got to put off that unholy fear, that ungodly thought, that that thing that diminishes God in my mind. And I’ve got to put on a thought. I mean, Psalm 119, I think 65 talks about, you know, those who love your law, have great peace.

I also, number six, would be what I’d call the comfort of the Holy Spirit. I mean, think about the gift that we were given, the gift of Jesus Christ. And then Jesus Christ gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit after His ascension. And the Holy Spirit is described as the paraclete, the, the, the comfort of the one who comes alongside us. And so when we deal with our fears and and we and we let our fears get a grip of us, we’re dealing with them by ourself. And amazingly, we have for God that someone indwells us. You know, wasn’t it David Livingstone who said the Spurgeon one day, You know, as I look at what you do, preaching, writing, your orphanage, your college for pastors, I mean, on a given day or a given week, you do the work of two men. And Spurgeon kind of laughed and says, oh, David, you forget there are two of us and there is two of us. Adrian Rogers was a great Southern Baptist preacher. I I’ve always enjoyed. He made a statement. Christi, I I hope our listeners remember, he says we’d be less inhibited if we remembered we were inhabited. And I’d love that I’m inhabited by the spirit of God in his presence. And I draw upon that. He fills me with courage and expels the fear. If I’m called you and I are called to be filled by the Spirit, well that’s the same word to choose by. In John 24, the disciples were filled with fear. And if I’m filled by the Spirit, I won’t be filled by fear.

And #7 is the one you talked about. Love cast side fear. God has not given us a spirit of love, but power in the Holy Spirit and love. That’s one John 4, isn’t it? Seven or nine love cast side fear. If I truly understand the gospel and the everlasting nature and electing nature of God’s love for me, I’m in the grip of grace. God loves me. He has, He does and he will. You know, I’ve tried as a father, Not perfectly, but you know, I want my girls to know they’re loved. They can come running to dad when they need anything. That’s right. I want them to have a sense of security. I’ve got 2 little granddaughters. They want them to feel secure. Love produces security and promises, stuff and all of that.

So #8 would be meditate on occasions of God’s past faithfulness. The thought I would take that from a Psalm. 27 I’ll just open my Bible here and read it so that I can make the connection. But the Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear? The Lord is the strength of my life. Of whom shall I be afraid? When the wicked came against me, that’s past tense. Not right now when they did. When the wicked came against me to eat up my flesh, my enemies and foes, they stumbled and fell. That’s a past tense experience in the life of DVD. Looks back. He sees the hand of God delivering him. Though an army man camp against me, my heart shall not fear the war may rise against me, and in this will I be confident. Spurgeon said that memory is the great handmaiden of faith, and we need to use our memories, Lamentations 321 says. And I recalled and I had hope and David and Psalm, 27, says I don’t fear because I look back on my life and I remember the things I went through and I came through. God was faithful. His grace was sufficient.

I think it’s Lou Perillo in a little. He wrote a good little booklet on fear, and he has this great analogy he stole from one of the Puritans that when a blood hind loses the scent of, you know that which he’s chasing. He sniffs his way back to the point where he lost the scent, and he picks the scent up again and he goes charging forward. And Lou Perillo says look. When you’re anxious and you’re worried and you’re in a fog and you’re in a fuss, sniff your way back to an episode or an event in your life where you you, you can taste the goodness of God and you can remember his faithfulness. Get back there like a Bloodhound, find that trail of faith that you’ve lost, and then find it and go forward.

All right, two ones. Quickly. The cost of fear. You know, I I think we’ve gone too far on this. We don’t. I don’t want to drive my sanctification. I want to don’t want to drive my relationship with God first by fear. You know, I want to. I want to be driven by the the this Piper talks about in some storms. Talks about just the joy and the pleasure of knowing God. But the Bible often shows us the cost of disobedience. The cost of of doing that which is outside the pleasure of God and and I think that’s it, is something will help me. It’s almost like fighting fear with fear. Well, you know if the cost of fear would be Galatians 6-7, just as a principle, you know, remember what you sow you’ll reap. And if you and I are going to spend evenings and days and seasons of our life gripped in a spirit of fear, why we spent that time worrying it didn’t do us any good. We got it. We lacked sleep. In fact, worry just makes us less able physically, emotionally and spiritually. Deal with the thing we’re worried about in the 1st place. You know it has physical consequences, it has emotional consequences and spiritual. So don’t indulge that fear. I know it’s tempting, but think about the cost of what you’re doing.

Then finally, here’s a lovely little thought study Ornithology. I didn’t say theology. We’ve covered that. Study Ornithology. That’s Jesus and Matthew 6. Go and look at the. Birds of the air. I mean, I read the life story of John Stott. He was a bird watcher and in some of his books he loved to write about what he had learned from birds. And a study of Ornithology, in fact it so many times this is interesting study for your listeners. So many times the Bible draws analogies to animals, you know. And there in Jesus says, hey, can you just go and look at the birds of the earth? They don’t worry, you know, and and and I take care of them. And here, here, here, here, here is you made in my image, redeemed by my son’s blood, one of the elect, one of the that you know, the peculiar, precious special people of God. And and if I take care of the lower creation, won’t they take care of the higher creation. In fact, when June and I were coming out to the masters seminary that was a big move. Christi with three little girls, I think it was 4, three and two, something like that, or one. We were leaving all that we knew. We were leaving security. I had a job. I had a job at a church. I was climbing for one of a better analogy, climbing the ladder of leadership on my Irish Baptists. But I was so but but taken by by John TMS. The opportunity to present it presented to me. So we sat down one night. We’re still thinking it through despite John’s goodness and the financial backing of of George and Anna Sanders and many friends here in the United States. I go, man, you know it’s it’s going to be a journey.

And I read I don’t recommend this too often because it’s a it’s a it’s a version of the Bible called the Message and it’s a very loose it’s a very loose paraphrase. It’s not something I’d study with often or I’d recommend to preach from or study from. But sometimes if you read it, it comes with a certain freshness and the end. Eugene Peterson’s paraphrase of Matthew 6. He paraphrases it like this. Go look at the birds of the air, careless in the care of God. It’s not beautiful. And that night, man of peace descended in my heart and June’s heart. And we looked around at the little our little daughters and go, we’re going to do this because we can be careless in the care of God. So that’s my my 10 commandments for fighting fear. And the last one is study Ornithology.

Yeah, so practical. I love that last point. And just the the realization too, that God, if He’s given us His Son, what else would he not provide and give to us? I mean, he gave us the greatest gift, the greatest show of His love. What else should we should never doubt His care and love for us? And and and look that’s put that puts fear in a in a proper category at times. I think we what’s the word I’m looking for? We don’t take it as seriously as we should. You know there’s there’s a Jerry Bridges talks about those acceptable sins and I think that’s one of those acceptable sins. But it is a sin. It’s a slander on the character of God and it is a devaluing of the work of Christ and the the benefits that the gospel brings to us. Why should we fear? Why should we worry? By God’s grace, let’s do it less and trust him more.

Amen. Now in the scriptures there’s different passages that talk about God’s special eye and protection for orphans and widows. And I’m just curious as I’ve read the those passages and being a single woman myself and my father is in glory already. Just wondering, can I kind of write myself into those types of verses that God has a special protection for single women? Would they be kind of considered into the widow category?

Well I think that you by extension that’s not a stretch and and God certainly curse for the widow because she’s by herself and you think the biblical contacts no Social Security you know that they live from Honda might they got daily wages because you know they just lived from day-to-day so so certainly I don’t think that’s a stretch and and and God has his eye on those who are lonely and cut off and and and all of that. On the other hand I’d caution you and I live in a special category Christi every day of our life whether we’re single married man or woman young or old. We just live in the grip of grace, and we’re in the hollow of His hand. Our name is etched, as Isaiah points out, in the hollow of his hand. Then he won’t leave the fatherless, and he won’t leave the word when he doesn’t overlook the single and he takes care of the married. And so, yeah, I think that’s fine. You know, you can stretch it there, and I don’t think that would be unbiblical. But I I’m always hesitant to put Christians into special categories because everything about you and me is grace. It’s all gravy. It’s all special. We’re all held deserving sinners and as Mark Davers says you know every day short of hell is is, you know party time and and so you know let’s do that.

Here’s what I’d say to you and two I’ve got two daughters that that fall into that category of of being single. You might have special care from the Lord and and and God is so gracious and kind to those who’ve have got certain challenges. I’m happy to embrace that to a degree with my qualification, but I’ll say this to you and my daughters and every single girl listening or every single guy. You’ve got a special calling and that’s First Corinthians 7. And that’s to devote yourself to Christ. And and while you wait for your knight in shining armor, while my daughters wait for that and long for that at the same time, I remind them that marriage is but for a moment and the relationship between Christ and his church is eternal. And Paul talks about if you’re single and we address single girls as you address them, then you’ve got a special calling to devote yourself to Christ, to to marry him in heart and mind and and serve him, and serve his bride and serve his Kingdom. And and should your desires be left unfulfilled and I understand the anxiety of that or the frustration of that as you would desire to be loved by a particular man and maybe bear children and enjoy the joy of family life for sure. But if that doesn’t come about marriage isn’t forever. It dies at death and we all become single in the life to come and we all just become part of one big family. So someday I’m going to preach a series to our church called singles and double S and deal with the whole thing with singles and marriage and all of that and just remind I, I I love the writing on the joy of marriage. But I I’ve sometimes I’ve felt we’ve pushed that and sometimes in some environments and Christianity, you know, of this idea of, you know, putting even single girls under families, I’ve never bought into that. I’ve never particularly liked that. Let’s put them under the umbrella of the family of God as if because family life as greater as is and it’s the cornerstone of society and it’s the building block of of all good things. It’s not forever. And sometimes we talk about marriage. It’s as if it’s forever.

Look, I hope I don’t go off in a tangent. I remember when I was single, I was on a man, a guy’s retreat. We were in in a room with a pastor. He was married with like 7 kids. And you know we’re kind of thinking boy he he’s married and the looks of it he’s enjoying it And and we were kind of but at one point we brought up the issue of intimacy and all of that just as you know red blooded guys. I never forgot what Pastor John Bernie said is his guys. It’s a joy and it’s fun and it’s a pleasure but it’s not everything and Christ is everything He just kept he kept us focused. What do you get to enjoy intimacy with someone in marriage or not It’s not everything And so I want to remind totally obvious here but special care absolutely of all and and that’s true of those all and maybe some of his in particular but for the single woman or the single guy special calling. Don’t get so anxious to get married that you waste your singleness and don’t pursue Christ and devote yourself. And often when it’s in the pursuing of that all of a sudden you find someone that you’ve been looking for and never find until you just be you were content and you do each day what you ought to do and then just God and his Providence send someone across your path. And if never, marriage is not forever, just remember that.

So, so helpful. And if you’re still single now, it means God has good works for you to do for him in your singleness. And those aren’t complete yet. So when he’s ready to have you do good works in marriage, if that’s his next step for you, he’ll bring the man at the right time. But I really love how you highlighted that verse in First Corinthians about undistracted devotion, And that is Our Calling. It’s and contentment too. Just like you said. Marriage and family isn’t everything. And if you talk to any married couple, that’s the impression that you get. You know, they’ll look back with fondness on their single days and kind of, you know, reminisce about all the joys then. So.

A little bit of humor here. There was a well known Presbyterian leader in Northern Ireland who never married. One day a friend of mine asked him, you know, why did you never marry? And with tongue and cheek he says, well, the desirable was unavailable and the the available was undesirable. So you know, just live in the tension of that you know want the marry, but you know you don’t. Don’t rush at it and don’t bring yourself into a lifetime. A heartache so that I just always thought that was so good, the desirable was unattainable and the attainable was undesirable. So you know, that’s just your lot in life sometimes.

Now one thing you touched on briefly and this leads into my next question is I want to ask you about just in a practical sense, God’s protection by using our families for single women, our fathers and are living in their our parents home right now in our society. It is a little bit different than it has been throughout history just because the gap of time between, you know, graduating from college to getting married has widened and so now women are not always living with their parents. They move out. They’re on their own. Can you help us understand? Is there wisdom? If the lady has an opportunity to live at her parents home or be under her father’s protection, is there wisdom in that or how should we think about it?

Oh, absolutely. I’m living it. You know it’s a biblical patriarchy with a certain with many qualifications in that the father, the patriarch of the home, has that responsibility to guard his daughter, guard her purity, guard her well-being, guard her mental health, guard her physical health and preach the gospel to her. Bring her up in the fear and admonition Lord and in someday even watch the process of dating or courting with everyone word you want to use and make sure she’s making a good choice. I mean I think far too many fathers have taken care of their daughters up until the point of dating guys and all of a sudden taking a hands off approach. That’s not what I’ve approached. I’m involved right up till I say and my wife and I, you know, give her away.

So you know, I’ve two single daughters as I mentioned Beth and Laura, you know, Laura and they’re both out of the home and for many for many years they were in the home. But I also said, look, you know, until the Lord brings someone into your life or maybe never, you’ve also as a single woman got every right to go out and make your mark in life. And I think that you know that Proverbs 31 and other things both in the church and in the world. And so they have moved out and they’re in their own little apartments. I’ve I’ve advised them and and overseeing that process too. They’re independent financially in that sense. But I tried to make sure they were OK budget wise and all of that and they weren’t overextending themselves. So there’s no point me pushing their boat out a little bit and six months later they’re back in the bedroom upstairs. So, you know, but I, that’s, you know, I do watch over them. I, I, I want them to flourish in their singleness. I want them to use their gifts, spiritual and natural, as a woman in singleness, to make their mark on God, on the sorry for God and and and on the culture, and to enjoy robust friendships and all of that. Yet at the same time, I enjoy