EP 98

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hello ladies. Today we are zeroing in on a handful of verses in Proverbs about the antonym woman. This is the opposite of who you want to emulate, but the contrast it provides can be very helpful. And we can consider these like God’s warnings for US women in Proverbs. My guest today is biblical counselor Marie Clark, and she helps us understand the biblical terms in these verses and the decisions and habits that lead to becoming one of these antonym women so that we can steer clear of that. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Marie Clark.

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast, Marie Clark. Before we digress, which I think is a fitting verb for the topic today on the antonym Women in Proverbs, would you introduce yourself to the listening audience?

Yes, I will and thank you so much for having me. It’s such a joy to be here. Like you said, my name is Marie Clark. My husband Brett and I both graduated from the Masters University with our degrees in Biblical counseling and we’ve been married for over 23 years. We have 4 kids and we homeschool them. One’s actually now at TMU, but we live in Acton on Acton, CA on a little over 4 acres and we have kind of like a little hobby farm where we have dairy goats and chickens and various other animals. So that’s a lot of fun to do that with the kids. We attend Crown Valley Community Church and we love our church family. It is the most wonderful church. Our pastor, Joel Moore and his wife Tracy, are godly and wise and kind and biblical and just about the best folks you could hope to do life and ministry with. And my husband is an elder there and he’s just involved in lots of ministries with the men and just the church. And I’m involved in various ministries. I’m involved in our music ministry, children’s ministry, we have college and career ministry in our home and I teach for women’s events when I’m able to. And I would say probably my greatest amount of time is spent in discipleship and counseling with our ladies at church. That’s that’s probably my greatest passion. I love doing that.

And that’s How I Met you in a similar role. You were giving the bridal shower talk for a dear friend of mine who attends your church, and you were talking about the different negative and positive examples in Scripture of women who either were a crown to their husband or brought him shame. And so it’s very similar to what we’ll be talking about today. And it’s so helpful in the Proverbs that God provides these negative examples. And it can be convicting because sometimes we can identify ourselves more clearly in the negative examples than we can in the positives. But it also helps wisdom to just shine brighter when we can see against the black backdrop of what we don’t want to become and then the contrast of who we do want to become. And in the Proverbs 31 woman. And so today we’re just going to go through a handful of these warnings in Proverbs that God provides for us. And we’re going to start with a real fun one today, Proverbs 11:22. And I’m just going to quote it here as a ring of gold and a swine snout. So is a beautiful woman who lacks discretion. So can you shed some light on what this Proverbs is describing and give us some insight into what the biblical meaning of discretion is?

Yes, absolutely. You know, I think when you read this proverb, it’s important to remember the idea here is that you wouldn’t expect to see a gold ring in a pig snout. I have animals. We’ve got livestock. I would never go out and put fine jewelry on one of my animals because it’s wasted value. It’s not going to be seen. It’s not going to be appreciated. It doesn’t contribute anything and it’s totally inconsistent with gold to be displayed on a pig. And in the same way it’s it’s really totally inconsistent with beauty for it to be displayed in in any beautiful woman without discretion. So to use like the literary analogy device, the pig is to the woman without discretion as gold is to beauty. And this lack of discretion in this verse, it just has the idea and you can, you can feel it with the pig being involved of just being like tasteless and inappropriate and rude and tactless. So it’s definitely not something that we want to be, but biblical discretion, and this is really, really important. It’s the ability to evaluate and discern the best course of action, especially when it comes to our words and actions. So to kind of define it a little bit. A discreet person is mindful of identifying the most fitting, wise, helpful, appropriate, gracious, kind, biblical thing to say and do, even if that discretion sometimes leads you to being quiet instead of speaking. And I think of Colossians 4:8, which I think perfectly defines us because it says let your speech always be with grace as those seasoned with salt so that you will know how you should respond to each person. So going back to that definition of discreet person is mindful of identifying there’s an evaluation that you see in Colossians 4:6 and an effort to identify what ought my response be. And even coming back to Proverbs, you know, because I love it all. All roads lead to Proverbs for me. But Proverbs 15:28 says, you know, the heart of the righteous. He ponders how to answer the mouth of the wicked just pours out evil things. There’s there’s not a, there’s not a moment to think and consider what, what ought I be? What ought I be saying in this circumstance? What ought I be doing? That’s that’s why the Proverbs point out it’s wise and discreet to watch over our speech. So, you know, a lack of discretion certainly pertains to how a person speaks. And, and since this is we’re focusing on women and anyone, of course, I’m sure listens, you get men and women, But for a woman, do we tend to hear a woman say things that are inappropriate or foolish? Does she laugh over sinful things? Does she exalt folly by being easily provoked? Proverbs 14:29 talks about that. Does she say the first thing that pops into her head? Proverbs 10:8 talks about the babbling fool and the the lips of the foolish will come to ruin. And you know, I used to be like that. I’m, I come from a family of talkers. I was the youngest of four, four kids, three brothers. So it’s always very quick to try to get in my, my last word. And if I felt uncomfortable in a situation, I would talk too much. But you know, Proverbs 10:19 says when there are many words, transgression is unavoidable. That was like my life first. I’m not even kidding. So we have to be careful about that. But at the same time, that doesn’t mean not to talk. And I see that in in gals, but rather that we want to become wise in our speech because speech matters a lot to God. It’s, it’s a big theme in the, in the Proverbs and a southern, a soothing tongue is a tree of life. So, so we definitely want to make sure that that we are that we are speaking well and that we’re taking our speech into thought and we’re pondering what we should do in a circumstance.

So, so Key and I like how you brought out that you’ve seen the opposite to where people can be too shy and not talk enough. And I’d like to rabbit trail down that a little bit because I know that that’s been a struggle for me at some points in my life. And I do see it in some other dear friends who afraid of saying the wrong thing or don’t think they have anything worthwhile to share with someone that they just don’t talk. And So what would, I guess, would you give any encouragement to the person who’s struggling in that way?

Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, there are people that are more naturally reserved. I don’t love the whole introvert extrovert like set up. I think it’s kind of worldly way of thinking about things. The Bible does talk about a babbling fool. I guess maybe us extroverted people are that sometimes. So I’d I’d rather have a biblical category for it. But I do think you have people that that are just more reserved. Obviously God’s made personalities to be different. I think for the person that’s more shy and reserved, first of all, kudos because there’s, there’s a lot to be said for not not saying too much, but I think that make sure that there’s not pride or fear of man that is keeping you back from speaking words. That would be like a tree of life to someone. And, and if you don’t know what to say, I, I always think the scripture, I would use the scripture to just share those things. And there’s a lot of ways to encourage people, even writing notes, But there’s also, I think just practice. All of us need practice in the areas where we have weakness. For me, it was like to be quiet for other people. It’s, I need to work on this. So with some of my kids, they’re more quiet. And when we’re in like a Bible study type setting or something like that, I’ll challenge them. I want you to share a couple things today. And they’ll be like, oh, and at first it was really hard. They, I think what happens when you don’t speak a lot is you don’t think about what you could say. You know what I mean? You just assume that you’re going to be quiet for it. Whereas someone who’s going to speak, they’re giving thought to, I’d like to share this thing today. I’m going to work it in somehow. So I think give thought to it and pray about it and then just take the plunge and, and keep practicing. When those quiet wise people speak up, everybody’s blessed by it. And so we don’t want to lose out on the blessing of what some wise but reserved people have to say. So just know that it’s a gift to us for those things to be shared. And I even in you doing the podcast, I mean, you say you’re a reserved person, but this is you putting yourself out there and, and practicing and doing something to become better at it. And you’re, you’re doing a wonderful job.

Thank you Marie, now those are really good tips and pointers and I liked how you brought it out to the motive of if someone is struggling with fear or fear of man or pride, that you can identify those things. If you’re just scared to death to ever say something in a group setting or you know, just just know that the Lord goes with you and he knows the words before you say them and just pray for his strength in those moments. And like you said, be be willing to be a blessing to others and think more about that than your own comfort level in a situation. And practice does help a lot. I said this before on the podcast, but my sister once had challenged me to to talk to one new person every Sunday or I think at the time she was trying to get me to talk to more gentlemen and so she would challenge me to go talk to one guy. Not that advice, yes. Which was good too because I could tend to just stick with girls and not ever branch out because that can be an uncomfortable area as well. And especially with most of the people listening to this being single. And we need to be more comfortable talking with men and to be able to practice that. Just treating them as brothers, having normal conversations with them, not avoiding them.

Yeah, and you know what, they’re shy too. They’re scared. They’re scared to respond to. So if someone approached them and is kind, I mean, you never know what doors that can open. So that’s a good thing to do.

Yes, and you know, it’s interesting with this verse and I looked up the dictionary definition of discreet and it can also mean just revealing private information, which I think, you know, that can tie back to to gossip and you know, just being over willing to over share. I think there’s a temptation when you when you’re close friends with people and you run out of things to talk about and I’m like, well, I know something that, you know, there’s something else we can talk about. So yeah, like, do we do we reveal the private information of other people? Do we even like private information about our own selves that nobody really needs to to You don’t have to flaunt everything about yourself. And I think with social media, there’s kind of this glory and being that transparent and that open and being an open book and where, you know, we want to be transparent in a good way. But I think we can take it too far and just want the things of our lives that should be kept private.

Yeah, that’s a really, really, really good point. I really appreciate that. Yeah, it’s, it is the temptation, especially when you’re shy or you don’t know what to say to, to open something up that you know you’re going to regret later. And I, I had, you know, a number of years of my life where I’d walk away thinking I just said too much, I went too far. I didn’t need to do that. Or I talked about myself too much and I I should have asked better questions of them. So I’m always looking for good questions to ask other people. I love that idea. I had a friend once when we were sitting down for like a we were just sitting down with some ladies. It was a Bible study group, but, and we’d known each other, but we didn’t know everything. And, and one friend opened up and said, tell me something I don’t know about you. And she asked one of the other ladies. I just, I just wrote that down. What a good question. Tell me something I don’t know about you yet. So that was fun, but kind of, you know, coming back to discretion, one of the things I was thinking about was, you know, practically speaking, what are some ways that it what are some more ways that it kind of manifests itself? And I was looking at another proverb that talks about discretion. It says a man’s discretion makes him slow to anger and it’s his glory to overlook a transgression. So taking just that verse and thinking, OK, that’s a verse that’s kind of defining a little bit discretion for us. It’s saying that it’s talking about discretion will make you slow to anger. It’ll make it your glory to overlook a transgression. So kind of doing some opposites of that, what are some ways that we women could could manifest indiscretion? And you know, a lot of them that that came to my mind even from that verse were things like anger and frustration and irritation and impatience. Because if it’s discretion that makes you slow to anger, sometimes we want to, sometimes we want to act like words like frustration or irritation or impatience aren’t anger. And they are manifestations of anger, you know, being easily offended and hurt by each other, which is a big one today. It’s like we have a very, very small range of what we feel like we, we is offensive to us and what’s not being unhappy to be inconvenienced by other people. Like how do we do when, when change, when plans change or how do we do when someone’s late because they’re late. That’s not right, but it’s the glory to overlook a transgression. So, so that’s like kind of something to practically think about. Are we inflexible or problem oriented? Like we can, we can explain why why something’s not going to work, but not work towards how it’s going to work or even hold grudges. I mean, if it’s your glory to overlook at a transgression, you’re not going to be a grudge holder. And just a really, really practical 1 when it comes to this a man’s discretion making him slow to anger. How how do we do when we’re driving? I always feel like the, the, the driver’s wheel is the window to the heart. I mean, are people, you know, are we frustrated when people cut us off? Are we cutting other people off? Are we speeding? Are we inconsiderate on the road? I mean, that is an area where you’re kind of anonymous in a way. You’re in this car. It’s not like you’re driving with people that you know from church necessarily. What is happening when we’re driving. That actually reveals a lot about the heart.

Yeah, anonymous in a way, unless you have like Christian bumper sticker or something where you’re like you have a little more accountability where like people will know where which camp I’m in if I cut them off and and that that’ll reflect on Christ. Yeah, I will just say to to single girls, if you’re interested in a guy, drive with him. Drive with him a few times, drive with him through LA traffic. It will tell you a lot about his character. And my, my brother always told me if you’re with a guy, hand him the car keys, even if it’s your car and make him drive. And I, that was uncomfortable initially. I had some guys I was getting to know from other States and they flew out to visit me and I handed them the car keys. OK, you’re driving in my hometown. And they looked at me like, what? But it was really helpful. And then it was also helpful to be like how do they handle me giving them directions or?

Yes, yeah. Or if you mess up, Yeah, the turn is right now, Right now. And they’re like, oh, you should have told me a block back. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, really real life example there to see what’s inside in the moment, in the heat of the moment when they’re maybe flustered and and not at their element. But this all this segues really nicely into the second verse that we’re going to talk about here, Proverbs 21:9. It is better to live in a corner of a roof than in a house shared with a contentious woman. So would you flesh out this verse? We see this verse a few times in Proverbs. And what does contentious look and feel like?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the first thing I want to say about this is it’s good to remember that it doesn’t say white in this verse. It just says a woman. So this could be a daughter, a sister, a roommate, a mom. This is just, but it is a woman. It is specifying a woman and it’s someone who’s who’s not pleasant to come home to. She contends, and I’m going to I am going to explain that a little more. It’s she’s argumentative, she’s fault finding, she’s more likely to disagree and dispute. And she’s the kind of person that insists that like she’s correct, other people are at fault, other people are remembering it wrong, other people are doing it the wrong way, other people aren’t doing it quickly enough. This is a woman who who nags and maybe she pouts, but that’s the silent treatment or punishes. And that’s, that can also be the silent treatment. You know, you’re in trouble. And it’s because this passage does mention women specifically, and God has ordained the word. There must be a tendency for women to do this. And it’s got to be something that we really have to watch out for in ourselves.

So, so helpful. And I, I find that like just women, their, their attitude has the biggest impact on their environment, whether that’s in the home or the office or anywhere. Like if you are contentious and fault finding the aroma of your life, people are just going to run the other direction. They’re going to run to the, the rooftop rather than being in the same area with you. So it’s so important that we set the thermostat and the tone and the warmth of the home. So we need to remember that.

That’s so true. I have kind of like a little exercise to identify this in oneself if it’s helpful because I was thinking about this, that it it might not be as useful to us to ask ourselves like, how am I doing? Like how do I think I do as a roommate? I think I’m pretty good. I mean, I do, I do good things, I pick up my trash, I make my bed. I thought it might actually be helpful to flip the narrative and ask ourselves how we feel about the other people we live with. Because what you’re holding onto in your heart in terms of how you feel about the people you live with, that’s actually going to be what manifests outwardly, not how you think you’re doing, but how you feel about how they’re doing. So some questions that I thought might be helpful to identify this would be like, do I have irritation in my heart towards the people that I live with? Do I often think about what other people need to be doing or what they’re not doing? Do I look forward to seeing and serving the people that I live with? Do I have kind of more unpleasant interactions with them that I have pleasant ones? And then really asking your roommates, what can I do to be a better blessing and contributor to our household? Because sometimes the things that we think make living pleasant are not what other people make think make living pleasant. And a contentious person is this person that’s finding the fault. And, and, and you know, what’s at the root of of that actually is complaint. And one of the things that’s, that’s helped me with the concept of complaining, because we know the Bible has a lot to say about that. But a person who complaints a lot, contends a lot, reveals a really proud heart. And that’s revealed through complaining because whenever we complain, we’re saying that we deserve better than what we got. So we grumble because things are less than what we thought they should have been. Whereas a truly humble person will be one of the most really thankful people that we know because they’re aware that they deserve nothing more than hell. And yet they’ve been given mercy from God and salvation and countless blessings. So this has helped me, You know, if anyone else is in my boat, you know, if you realize that you’re a person who tends to complain about things, it’s really good to think through the pride that contends with God to have more than you have or to have a different situation than what you have than what God has chosen for you. And instead to just really spend time thinking about and thinking and restructuring your system for evaluating your blessings from God, because that’s that’s where we see the complaint really come from. And I will just say, like on a really practical note, read Numbers 11 and 12. I read those chapters and I walk away blushing because they’re, they’re so convicting. They’re talking not about us. They’re talking about Israel and Miriam, but you could just almost insert yourself into that situation. And so it’s so good to remember, and I do. I have a quote from Charles Spurgeon that I just love that has helped me where he says we’re too prone to engrave our trials in marble and write our blessings in the sand. So just some good things to kind of keep in mind.

Yeah, yeah, complaining and rude of it too. Could be, you know, discontent as well. And the book that I love that I’ve recommended on the podcast a few times as the rare jewel of Christian contentment by Jeremiah Burrows. And he has so many helpful just thoughts, food for thought in there. And, and one of them I’m going to butcher it, but I try to remember it on the fly here. But basically you bring down your expectations or desires to what you currently have. So you, you fit your your thoughts to what your current lot is and what you have. And then if you’re not, if you don’t have this, you know, elevated view of what your life should be, then you know, that’s what feeds discontentment. But if you bring down your desires to what you have, then you will be full and you will be content. And so truly exercise of our minds and hearts and being content with what God has allowed.

Yeah, I have a little, I have a little illustration that I do. It’s really simple. I just do like a rectangular box and above it I write contentment and it just says it’s like a play on words, but it says thank inside the box, like inside the box of what God has given. Think instead of like, it’s like a joke of like instead of think outside the box, think inside the box because, you know, thank the Lord for what he’s already given you. And and that’s where that’s where to put the focus.

You know, that reminds me, I just came across recently these little 3 by 5 cards that my mom had written down a things that she was thankful for about my dad and I was probably a time when she was really having to battle this. Maybe there was something feeding her discontentment at that particular season of life. She raised seven kids. So there’s, you know, a lot of moments of stress and, and sleep deprivation and all of that. But it was just so sweet. She went through point by point of all the ways that she appreciated him and, and his strengths and qualities and how he helped the family and just thought about, you know, the things she was thankful for about him. And you like the example you gave, thinking inside the box, and like, that’s what she was given in him. And that little exercise, I’m sure, really helped her to see him and appreciate him and the way that God had made him.

But Speaking of husbands and wives, we have our next Proverbs. Here’s Proverbs 12:4. An excellent wife is the crown of her husband, but she who shames him is like rottenness to his bones. So what does it look like for a wife to shame her husband?

Yeah, This proverb is, if you think about it, it’s one of those ones we’ve heard so many times. We don’t, like, give it a lot of thought. But it is such a stark contrast because in one, you have this woman who’s so excellent in her own person because it says it’s an excellent wife. She’s so excellent that she makes her husband look like royalty. Like, that’s kind of the idea there. And then in contrast, you have a woman who makes him so ashamed and so embarrassed and beaten down that she is literally like a disease that overtakes his body. And you know, to your point earlier about the, the impact that a woman has and how she affects the, the environment, Oh my goodness, how much influence a woman has over her marriage and over her husband. I mean, just in this proverb that she could be like a disease in his bones. The rottenness in his bones is a is a horrifying, horrifying thought. And it’s absolutely astounding the power that is given to women through their behavior, a good or bad. You know, I’ll just say to to kind of start with the negative first. I have seen this kind of wife and the effect that she has on her husband, the one that’s the rottenest in his bones. And I know you have to. I’ve heard wives, you know, badmouth their husbands and and widely spread private information about his sins to her friends because, you know, she’s looking for her own pity and solidarity, but she’s disparaging him and or maybe she’s she’s putting him down constantly. She’s minimizing the good that he does. She mocks him when he does try. I’ve seen that. It’s so sad. A big thing is, is turning the kids to her side by herself playing the victim. So maybe she has a difficult situation, but by by playing the victim to her kids who are very, you know, kids tend to feel bad for a mom. They’re making the kids, she’s making the kids and and manipulating them to be angry at him. And you know what? I, you can almost read it in a husband’s face. They, the husbands know when their wives are talking about them. The husbands know I will have husbands because, you know, a lot of women come to me for counsel. I don’t allow gossip, but they know they’ll come to me and I’ll have a husband that he just won’t even make eye contact with me because he, he knows his wife has been saying things about him. They know they’ve been talked about. And it’s, it’s sad. You see a man that’s really been beaten down in even an interesting context because I think even within the seminary sometimes, or aspiring seminarians, I’ve seen men have a heart and a yearning to serve in the church, Maybe not in the pastoral role, but maybe just as a Deacon or whatever. But I’ve seen them held back by a wife that complaints about him ministering or and this is another big thing. The wife is kind of so disorganized and disciplined at home in the duties that God has given her, but the husband has to do the things that that she should do. So, you know, maybe you have a husband coming home to a messy house, no dinner, the kids are out of control. The home is in chaos. And and and she’s been fed this self-care propaganda of I don’t I shouldn’t be doing this. And I got to fill my own cup before I can fill everybody else’s. And I’ve seen wives treat their husbands like he’s her help me. And I am not saying that that he can’t help around the house and I’m not I’m not saying that husband and wife are a team and they work together and there’s balance to that. But if she’s not doing her God-given mandate, she can eat up his time and she can hold him back even with her own sinfulness from growing in ministry opportunities. So you know, I I really do want to say to Single Ladies and a married ladies, but just take this proverb very, very seriously and be a serious woman of God because your husband and your children and the generations that come from you should the Lord tarry will literally be formed in so many ways by the wife and the mother. So I’m not going to I’m not going to be that person’s like no pressure. There is pressure. There’s pressure from God to be a godly and excellent woman. I just saw some silly thing on Facebook, but it was talking about Proverbs 31 and in the comments, the women are just like, Oh, well, it’s just a metaphor and nobody could be that. And oh, this was written by men for men and now you know, no, it’s the word of God And it’s either there are things that are very achievable and to do in that it God calls us to be an excellent and and a godly woman and just talking about that, the shame and the rottenness and the bones. If you follow generational sins even in your own family. So maybe you had a mom, not you, but you know, listeners, there’s anxiety or stress or maybe she’s angry and she’s a perfectionist. The house had to be a certain way or kind of maybe on the other spectrum, maybe there’s there’s laziness and mess and manipulation. It can often be traced back to the women. And when I meet with women, even older women, even when I talk to my mom and my mother-in-law, I hear about how their lives are literally impacted to this day by the things that their mom did. So there is a lot to consider in in the way that a a home is shaped by a woman, and that’s something that that a single women, they need to be pursuing that within themselves. Now that character, that private godly character, because the reality is that the excellent wife who’s the crown of her husband, she’s just a woman who’s pursuing her walk with Christ and she’s she’s pursuing personal righteousness and she’s pursuing excellence of character despite anybody else. All of her friends could be doing this differently. She’s committed to this. And and the effect that you see not only in Proverbs 12, but you see it in Proverbs 31, which I know we’re going to talk about later, but like just a little preview. It says of the of the husband of this godly woman that her husband is known in the gates. But Proverbs 31 is about her. So what, where’s the connection to her, her having some impact on him being known in the gates? And I think it’s just that she has, she is such a woman of dignity and respectability that she contributes to his maturity and his success as the man of the house. And she is, she has been a person who has, who has made a tone that contributes to a man’s own godliness. And that’s sometimes setting the example that’s loving your husband. Men respond to love and affection and kindness like a flower in the sun, man, you pull that away and they wither right in front of you. It’s honestly true. But that’s why, you know, Titus talks about it. Be sensible and pure and kind and and working in home, that is where you’re going to build something great in your own home. So it, you know, that’s just a woman has to focus on that. She wants to be the crown of her husband and then she wants to be a blessing to her children. Those things have to be there.

So powerful. Thank you, Marie, for sharing that. And you know, the the home we know is the building block of society. And so if if a woman is neglecting that, like, you know, it, not only is it the biblical mandate that we are to flourish and to pour influence and efforts into that realm, but it also effects not only our little family, but all of society. You know, women abandoned the homes. And we do see that already in our Society of women doing that abandoning the homes and the the ripple effect on on the children, on the husband and I. I really appreciate how you talk about how it can contribute to a man’s success and example. And so I and I’ve been thinking about this just as, you know, being single and looking at potential men to marry, not looking for someone who’s already achieved this super level of, you know, maturity or godliness. You look for a good man who loves the Lord and by you coming along being has helped me as well like you as a team can grow in that walk together.

Yeah, absolutely. As long, you know, the biggest thing to look for is someone who’s teachable. If he’s if he loves God and he’s he’s he’s a person that you see, he repents of his sin. Oh man, you’ve got gold. And I like too, that, you know, like you’re talking about the Proverbs 30 woman and how so many disparage that as ever being achievable. This is God’s word and we have God’s strength and his help to help us to grow in those roles and, and to be this kind of woman. So it’s not just up to us. And so we have nothing. We have no reason to complain about this because God has promised that he will help us and he will give us his strength and enable us to become this kind of woman. But the other woman that we do not want to become and this woman is all over Proverbs. We’re going to be talking about the the adulterous woman. And so I just first, before I read the the verse, we’re going to talk about why is the woman always painted and as being the adulterer and not the man. We know in adultery situations is, you know, both are at fault. Sometimes man is the one enticing the woman. So can you help us understand why is the Proverbs painted and as the woman’s issue?

Yeah, yeah, I know. I know this has been offensive to some people. I hope that some things I have to say about this will be helpful. So there’s kind of three things that I’ll just touch on briefly with that. 2:16 So Proverbs 2:16, which is the one you’re going to read in a minute, it tells us about the adulterous woman. But right before it in just literally 2 verses before in, in 14, well, 12 through 14 of chapter 2, it actually says also talking about God’s Word and turning to God for wisdom. It says to deliver you from the way of evil, from the man who speaks perverse things, from those who leave the paths of uprightness to walk in the way of darkness and delight in doing evil and rejoice in the perversity of sin. So the verses that lead up to talking about the adulterous woman actually first talk about the man of perversity. And that word, of course, refers to sexual immorality, right? So wicked men are acknowledged to be a part of the problem. I just kind of want to say that first, but secondly, and I’ve, I’ve got my Bible right in front of me here and I’m going to start in, in chapter 1 of Proverbs, what you see is all these my son. So all right, chapter one, verse 8, my son, hear your father’s instruction. Chapter 2:1, my son, if you receive my word, chapter 3, my son, don’t forget my teaching. Chapter 4, hear, O sons, the instruction of a father. Later in verse 20, my son, give attention. 5 give attention, my son, 6 his son. Like I could just go on and on. So I read those to say that this proverb was written by a man for his son. And even though we don’t see my daughter, that doesn’t mean that those warnings as all proverbs don’t apply to us. I mean, they all apply to us. So the adulterous woman that he’s pointing out, it is a warning to his son that he is writing this letter to, but it very much applies just as much to the woman of God fleeing the adulterous man or the man of perversity, which is also addressed in chapter 2 as well. And throughout, I mean, there’s a lot of verses that talk about that. OK. And then lastly, one of the things we see in Proverbs is that wisdom and folly are both portrayed as women and they’re set in contrast to each other. So I want to explain that there’s a part of this here that’s metaphor in in Proverbs chapter 1. It’s talking about Lady Wisdom and it says here she lifts her voice in the square. She calls for a foolish man to come to her. She’s found later in chapters 8-9, she’s referring to what God she’s saying with me. God created the world. And then in Chapter 9, she’s built her house and she’s hewing her pillars all that so that she can make this invitation for the foolish to turn into her. And in that same chapter where she’s she’s built her house and she’s invited people in, we see Lady Folly, the metaphorical woman at her house, and she’s also making an invitation to the fool. So what’s interesting when she’s making these invitations to the fool is that she sounds an awful lot like the description of the adulterous woman in Chapter 7. In fact, they even say the same things to the man. So there’s an aspect that is metaphor, which is just saying these kind of enticements in general refer to this kind of a person. Be aware of it. This is the way of foolishness. This is the way of death. Does that help at all?

It does, yeah. And I, I, I think it was neat how you brought out that it was addressed initially to a son. But yeah, the metaphorical nature of it too, is helpful and understanding it. I’m just going to read the verse that I’ve picked out that describes the adulterous woman. And there are many as as the listeners know, but Proverbs 2:16 to deliver you from the strange woman, from the adulteress who flatters with her words. So if you could just talk a little bit about why this characteristic of flattery in the adulterous woman and then also, you know, most of us are just single women. So how do you, what are the like habits patterns that what it what is this path towards this adulterous woman look like? We, we want to steer clear of that and not get anywhere close to that line. So help us identify what that that progression looks like.

1. 100% and I’m so glad you said that because sin is not something you’re not catapulted into sin instantly. You know, it’s something that you you feed, generally speaking. And if I can, I’m going to read as that proverb goes on. There’s a couple other verses after it. It also says so to save you from the adulterous woman, the wayward wife who flatters with seductive words. And then it says who left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God, her house bows down to death. So I think what I want to say to our sisters that are listening is that you see in these verses that we’re talking about a woman who has been unfaithful to the pure standard that God has required of her. Now, in her case, because it’s saying adulteress, we’re hearing about marriage. She’s left the companion of her youth. However, if you look at that second verse, it also says she’s ignored the covenant that she made with her God. And so this isn’t just about unfaithfulness to her husband. It’s also about unfaithfulness to God. And so I’m going to be very, very, I’m going to be kind of like in the people’s kitchen here today a little bit. Are we reading books that entice you with sensual material? Are we watching things on Netflix that, hey, it’s not pornographic, but it’s not clean and we know that it’s a temptation? There’s something really interesting you see in Proverbs 7, and I want to kind of talk through it a little bit here, but I want to start out by saying sin lies to you in every form. Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Bible says the heart is deceitful above all things. James says that the wisdom of the world is demonic, and so sin is lying to you. Whether it’s the sin of the world or of the flesh of the devil, it’s all lying to you. And it it lies to you in the way it tricks you. We really see this in in Proverbs 7 is that it paints before you 1% of reality in a fantasy, and that one percent is the temptation. So in Proverbs 7:16 where it’s talking about a man falling into the Wilds of the adulterous woman, it says here she’s convincing him. So she’s kind of he’s gone down her St. and and she’s there. She’s waiting for him. And she says I’ve spread my couch with coverings with linid covered colored linens of Egypt. I’ve sprinkled my bed with myrrh and aloes and cinnamon. Let us drink of our love until morning. This. So she gives this all my husband’s gone. He’s been on a long journey. He’s taking a bag of money and with many persuasions she entices him and with flattering lips she seduces him. So that’s the 1% of the lie of let’s say, in this case, the flesh. We won’t be caught. And even though we’re talking about single women here, maybe some are dating. Maybe this is a personal thing. The secret indulgence of gratifying lust and thinking it’s hidden and it’s under control is the lie. You know, that’s that’s your 1%. I’m not going to get caught. It’s OK. That’s the part we tend to focus on. That’s the part we tend to fantasize about. Maybe you listen to music, non Christian music in it, and it leads you to some of these thoughts, whatever those temptations are. But the reality is you turn the page and your heart and your mind are struck with the reality of the path of sin. Because it says suddenly he follows her as an ox to the slaughter, as one in fetters, till an arrow pierces his liver, as a bird hastens to the snare. He does not know that it will cost him his life. And so I think, you know, I, this is the emphasis I want to make our mind and our flesh and the world and the devil. They want us to forget about the snare and the slaughter and instead focus on the seduction. And that is the 1% of the story. But it’s our responsibility as believers to come before the reality of Scripture and understand that sin only leads us as an ox to the slaughter. You know it’s costing us our life and we don’t want sin to fool us with its shiny veneer of that 1%. So my challenge to the precious folks listening is, have you let your mind now, even in singleness or marriedness, become a secret place where you indulge in fantasies which you don’t plan to carry out, but they bring some sort of satisfaction or indulgence to you? The heart and the mind are not a safe zone. They are a war zone and they’re not a place to secretly live and cherish sin. They are laid bare before God, the God with whom we have to do. And he demands holiness internally and he demands a radical mortification of sin. He does not let us toy with it. The Bible says you better watch over your heart with all diligence because for it blow the springs of life. You will be what you feel. And Proverbs 23:7 says as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. And of course James talks about and they’re tempted and they’re enticed by lust. And when it’s conceived and it gives birth and it’s accomplished and it brings death. So we can’t think that enjoying like an internal toying with lust, like it’s not that bad, I’m in control of it, it’s OK. It will bring forth sin. And it’s this, the scripture is trustworthy about that. But like in an encouraging thing, I want to say so, so watch your mind. What are you thinking when you look at guys? Are you thinking he’s cute? Are you checking him out? Are you envisioning things happening? You know, are if you’re with a boyfriend, are you always comparing him to someone else and kind of looking for the upgraded model and this one’s better? That’s a big thing for adultery is always looking for a better option And and when you’re dating, you do have options. So I’m not saying that that’s the person you have to be with. Yes, you should be looking for the best man of God for you, but you don’t want to be a person you don’t want to. Maybe I guess 1 caution I would give is like don’t don’t date a serial dater. Don’t date a guy, maybe who’s dated

, you know, 30 girls still looking for a better model. That kind of just gives warning, I think. But you know, I think the thing I would just really challenge yourself and don’t don’t ask yourself the question, how close can I get to sin and still be OK? But really the question ought to be how holy can I be? And there is such delight and such joy and such freedom in walking in closeness to God. I mean, the nearness of God is my good, right? Psalm 73. So revel in that and enjoy that and and be satisfied in Christ. And I know it’s hard when there’s not an outlet, but just remember that security is not just needed for when you’re single, it’s needed for when you’re married as well. As this proverb warns us. I mean, this is a person who is married. Your heart doesn’t stop sinning when you get married. So really get self-control now that you can feel confident. I, I am in control of my vessel First Thessalonians 4 and how to manage it. And I know how to delight in and enjoy the Lord and I’m not, I’m not putting things in my life that create temptation and then justifying them as excusable. And, you know, I don’t know what all the temptations are for women. I know about like books and I, I guess TV shows and stuff, but just even fantasy life, you know, that’s something that the Bible says Philippians for where to think on what’s true, not what’s not, what’s not true. So that’s there’s a lot of scripture that talk about what we think about and how that affects who we are.

Yes, I really appreciate how you brought out self-control because I think that’s the the thought is if you lack self-control, you just get married and then you know that that solves it and it doesn’t. And, and I’ve heard that abused before, especially with men who have struggle in the area of purity. And they just think if I just get married, that’s going to solve this issue in my life. And it doesn’t because this, this passion, this central passion is just something that doesn’t have boundaries. You know, it says the, the eyes of a man are never satisfied. You know, there’s just, you’re just always going to need and want more. And it’s never going to. You are never going to be satisfied with your lust.

Yeah, and that’s a very selfish perspective too, right? That I’m just here, I’m getting married so that my lust can be gratified. That’s selfish for anyone to think that way. When you get married, people get sick, women have babies, there are seasons of life that are really hard and you should always be striving to be intimate on a regular basis, but it does not mean that you are not going to have times of self-control. You 100% are for the rest of your life. It’s it’s God has made us. It’s a fruit of the spirit. So you know, don’t think I can, I can circumvent that fruit of the spirit by just doing this. You know, a wife or a husband, they’re not an object and and intimacy is not just gratifying that at all.

Going now to another type of woman, kind of circling back to the woman in the home. This is Proverbs 14:1, the wise woman builds her house, but the foolish tears it down with her own hands. So can you shed some light on what does this look like practically? I mean, I think it’s just so interesting that the foolish is actually tearing it down and then it says with her own hands. Kind of, right? Yes, phrase in there, which is all on her. Yeah, it doesn’t need any help doing it. So yeah, help us understand what does this look like and how do we not become this woman?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, it, it, it is interesting that while this particular verse doesn’t tell us how this particular foolish woman is tearing it down with her own own hands, we really have the whole Bible to give us little pieces of that. In fact, the one we just read about it, it’s said at the end of it in Proverbs 2:16, her house leads down to death. It means literally her house bows down to death because of what she’s done. So, so certainly covenantal unfaithfulness is one of those ways. But you know, I am going to tell you a way that I see this happening a lot today. It, it can happen in different ways, but there’s one that I see that is so insidious and I think it’s a little less thought about. So I, I want to focus on it. And that is the naivete that opens the door to the woman’s heart and to her home when it comes to being influenced by secular philosophies and secular assessments of their lives and their problems and their marriages and their children and the answers that they provide. I meet with women from very solid churches or have come to solid churches to our church who still think and use terminology that is totally worldly and words that I think I wouldn’t expect to hear that in the church. And I’m hearing it because it’s, it’s like we’re like fish and water and that’s the world we live in. But the the problem is it’s not just vocabulary. It’s a mindset that they’ve been influenced into by the world. And it sets the story for families. That’s not biblical. So in Proverbs 1:4, it talks about why this book was written. And it it, it says here it’s it was written to give prudence to the naive. And that word naive, which is translated as simple means at its root and open door. And that gives the picture of a person who they don’t know what in they, they, they don’t know what to let in. They don’t know what to let out. So I just like to envision like a big beautiful home with a fantastic high, high end security system and the windows are all locked, but the door, the front door is wide open. Anything that wants to come in can do so. And there’s no discernment to guard the door of that mind. And and it goes even further. In Proverbs 14:15, it says, you know what the knight believes everything. So without a fixed commitment to and complete dependence on the sufficiency of God’s truth, a Christian woman will take wrong steps because she’s easily fooled by worldly advice and temptation. She’s she’s at the mercy of of any advisor. The naive believes everything. So I think for me as I, as I meet with women who go to good church and their kids are in good programs and they feel really safe. They feel like confident because oh, I’m in a good church. This is going to nothing. We’re not going to be influenced by these things. But I can tell pretty quickly when I talk to a woman if she has a clear understanding of what the Bible says about her sin, or she’s been more influenced by the world in her practical living and her language, then she has been by the word of God. So now I just want to encourage women as they’re building their houses, to be so careful about the advisors that they’re listening to through books and media and to make sure that it’s biblical. And that if, if it’s going to affect how you do things, how you raise your kids, how you, how you find a husband, how you live, how you deal with family, extended family. I just, and I see this more and more and more. So I just, you know, to to you guys, you know me that I am an unapologetic biblical counselor through and through because I believe with every fiber of my being in this efficiency of Scripture. And it’s under attack by secular psychological advice. It sounds like it’s from the professionals, but it’s based on worldly wisdom with which James calls demonic. And I’m saying what I’m saying because it’s not uncommon for our women to turn to those things for answers. It’s happening all the time. I hear women talk about the benefits of being like empowered and Oh, I heard this really good psychiatrist talk about this or that or I’m working on, you know, myself image is really low. And that’s why I have these problems. And I’m connecting it to this proverb, Proverbs 14:1, because the quickest way to tear down your house is to not build it on the foundation of and the material found in the Bible. And my heart breaks because I hear young women or young mothers talk about like self esteem and oh, it’s, I mean, honestly, even Christians like, well, it’s just your journey. And, and all I can think when I hear those things is, you know, there’s a way that seems right to man. These are it, these things sound right to man and they lead to death. So I, I just, you know, when we think about building our house, remember that, that he who walks with the wise will be w…