EP 97

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hi everyone, if you have an idea for a topic that you want to hear covered on this podcast, please let me know by writing to me at Smiling at the Future podcast@gmail.com. My creativity has its limits and it helps me so much to hear from you all and the kinds of topics that would help you grow to be more like Christ. My returning guest today is Sophie Sutherden, and the topic on the table that we discussed together is what maturity looks like in the area of moving forward emotionally from a previous relationship or crush. So much of life seems to have this theme of knowing how to trust God and migrate through the changing seasons and circumstances of our lives and accepting His will in these sometimes tender heart matters. So if you find yourself stuck emotionally on a guy that the Lord has made clear is not your future husband, I hope that after this episode you will be motivated to release that to the Lord and to take some steps forward on the path that God has laid out for you. So here is my conversation with Sophie Sutherden.

Christi: Welcome back, Sophie Sutherden. The last episode that we did together was on Food and Body Image, and that was now almost two years ago, if you can believe it. But I still regularly receive comments from people who loved that episode, loved what you shared. And so that was back at episode #63. So just another plug for that one. If if the listener is struggling with any of those things, with eating or their own perception of themselves, that would be a really good listen. Before we launch into our discussion today on moving forward, would you just reintroduce yourself to the listening audience?

Sophie: Hi, Christi. Yes, it’s so good to be back. I can’t believe it’s almost two years ago now since we last spoke. It’s crazy. Time just flies. But I’m really, really happy to be back on this podcast. It’s an honor. So I’m from England, So for those of you who don’t know me, my name is Sophie. I’m from England and I am a graduate of the Masters University. So I came out here for to study geoscience and to run on the cross country and track team. And then I graduated and I just wanted to stay. So I did praise the Lord, my visa got renewed. And so I’m here for another couple of years at least and just that loving it, that Grace Community Church where I worship and in our Bible study. And it’s just been so sweet. So I’m working at Christian School, a private Christian School here in Santa Clarita, and yet never thought that I would be a chemistry teacher in Southern California, but here I am. So yeah, it’s been a blessing.

Christi: Well, your friendship has been a blessing to me. We’ve served in the same Bible study for a few years now, and just getting to know you and seeing your love for people in the Lord has just spurred me on to love and good deeds. So I’m so thankful that the Lord orchestrated us becoming friends and strengthening that friendship over the years. And today we’re going to be talking about something that is so relevant to so many single women for for anyone who is emotionally stuck, maybe you’re pining away for someone that you have a crush on and it’s just going on and on and you can’t get over that. Or maybe you’re just a past flame has still has a clutch hold on your heart and emotions and you can’t seem to let that go. We’re hoping that this episode will help you to engage those emotions, kind of work through them, deal with them, and then move forward in a healthy God honoring way. And we want to help you understand what is that path forward look like. So first question, Sophie. For the woman who is emotionally stuck on a guy, why is it important that she actively address those longings and emotions?

Sophie: Yeah, it’s such an important topic, and I definitely agree. For the single woman, it’s probably very dominating. In this season of life, we tend to go from one crush to another or one disappointment to another. And so this takes up a lot of our time and a lot of what we need to be thinking about and we need to have a biblical perspective. So the first question that you ask is, is great. Why? What is the motive? And I think that unless we know the motive for moving on and we have a good biblically sound motive, I, I think that we’re just setting ourselves up for failure from the start. And so we’ve really got to understand what is the importance of moving on emotionally? Why is it that it’s not good just to be in this endless cycle of just, yeah, having this long term crush on someone or, or even perhaps just being caught up in disappointment after after a failed attempt? Why is it that we need to move forward?

And I first of all, just want to say that it’s inevitable that there’s going to be pain and separation or that there’s going to be some kind of unfulfilled longing and that those emotions are going to come. That’s just part of living in a sin cast world, I’m afraid. When God created the world, he created it perfectly and that was perfect unity between Adam and Eve and sin messed that up. And so now instead of relationships continuing to move forward, unfortunately because of because of sin and because of the fool, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes, sometimes we have to experience the pain of separation. We have to experience the pain of rejection. All of those things that come, come from living in a fallen world and having relationships in it.

I think would be wise just to define why what is not a good motive for moving on and I think a worldly some worldly motives for moving on. One of them could be stoicism. It’s like we just don’t want to feel the pain. We can’t deal with the pain. So we’re just going to shut off our emotions. We’re going to move forward. We’re going to get on with our life. That’s that’s something that we should be careful that we’re not doing after after a failed attempt or maybe a long term of romantic interest. It’s not biblical. Jesus himself, he mourns over that Israelites rejecting him in Matthew 23. You know, it’s that passage where he says Jerusalem, Jerusalem, like if only I could just, you know, wrap you up in my arms or something like that. But you wouldn’t you wouldn’t have it. Your affections were not for me. And he mourns over that. And so there is some legitimacy and and mourning somebody not reciprocating your feelings for them and also really bad motive to move on. But probably one that we, if we were honest, we fall into more often than not is to avoid being humbled. We we want to keep our pride intact. And so we go, yeah, you know, I got rejected, but it didn’t hurt me. Never mind. I keep calm, carry on type of stiff, stiff upper lip and move on. Let nobody know that you’re hurt and you won’t have to face the embarrassment of actually perhaps not having those feelings reciprocated. And again, that’s not guarding your own pride and your own ego is is definitely not a good motive for for trying to become emotionally detached from someone.

So those are the reasons why we shouldn’t move on, but there are plenty of reasons why we should. I think it’s easier to speak into if God has made it clear. So if, if it’s very clear that this is no longer moving forward, I, I think that the the motives for moving on are just very clear. We want to think on what is true. So we don’t want to try and create a false reality where somehow our emotions are a little bit cushioned that sometimes this could be perhaps by hoping that it’s going to work out in the future and clinging on to those few strands of hope, you know, and instead of thinking on the reality and instead of thinking on the facts, if they’ve been made clear. Now, if those facts haven’t been made clear, moving on is just a little bit harder. And that’s probably a whole nother topic that we could talk for ages about. But I think it would just be easier to address if it’s been made clear, then just really pulling on those strands of hope and making something that is unrealistic. Trying to imagine that up in your mind is, is not being truthful. It’s it’s deceiving yourself. And that’s that’s not what we’re we’re commanded to do.

Christi: That may look like when you’re describing this to a friend or a mentor of hoping it’ll work out. You might describe it like I’m 99% sure that this isn’t going to happen, but that 1%. So if that’s how you think about it, that it’s so far fetched that this relationship could ever be resurrected from the Ted and you’re like 99%, but you’re clinging to that 1%, then I would say that’s a good indication that you’re living in a false reality. And we’re, like you said, to think on things that are true.

Sophie: Right, absolutely. And, and let’s go with that example. If I’m, you know, 99% sure, OK, so if I was a betting person, which I’m not, but if I was, I’m 99% sure that the, the Dodgers are going to lose, but I’m 1% sure that they’re going to win. So I’m going to cling to that 1%. I’m going to put all of my money on that 1%. You would say what a what a fool. Like you’re not, you’re not investing your resources and something that you even believe is, is over 1% certain. Actually 99% of you says that it’s uncertain. So why on earth would you invest in that 1%?

Christi: Well, and I guess the counter argument could be as believers we are to have hope. We are to hope and believe all things and we believe in the God of miracles. So how do we balance that knowledge of who God is with, you know, the uncertainty about that relationship?

Sophie: Oh yeah, absolutely. He could do anything. I mean, he created the world for nothing. Nothing is impossible for him. However, we’re not in the place of God. We see a narrow strip of reality and we’re commanded to act according to what he’s revealed to us. The secret things belong to the Lord and those revealed to us that they’re they’re so that we can walk in righteousness. So I think that he, yes, he can. He can do miracles. He can do things which are so out of the blue, but he also has put us in a world which is regulated and somewhat predictable for our benefit so that we know how to plan. Yeah, you’re right now, James, it says that, you know, you don’t know what tomorrow’s going to bring. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t plan. We, we do have regular times and seasons and God does that intentionally so that we can make plans for the future. And so we’re not responsible for whatever miracle God is going to do in the future. All we’re responsible for is controlling what we can control and making decisions based upon what he has revealed to us. And it would just be wise if we’re looking at probability to manage our investments. And according to the probability that we see in front of us, not a unknown possibility, because how could we possibly know that?

Christi: Yeah. No, really helpful points. Thank you, Sophie. Yeah.

Sophie: But going on as far as why that was like a little rabbit trail, but going on an important one, but also going on why? OK, guys made it clear, you know, this is not this is not something that we’re to pursue. And he can do that in many ways. We want to be able to have that hard posture of, OK, Lord, even though it’s hard, thy will be done. We always want to be in that position. And he never recommends us to live a life where it’s where we’re double minded. But we have one foot in one place and one foot in another place and we’re doubting and we’re doubting God and we’re doubting and trusting in his care for us for the future. And I think if we stay stuck in an in an emotional attachment where we know that’s not moving on as far as we can see, if we’re double minded, James says, you know, we’re like the waves that just get tossed to and fro. We shouldn’t expect to receive anything from God. We want clarity in our lives so that we can move forward with confidence and press on towards the goal. And the goal is always to to be like Christ to to live out his commands. And we don’t want to waste the time that we have. And Hebrews as well, you know, it says lay aside every weight. And these emotions can be really heavy on our hearts. And when we’re attached to something and the Lord is pulling us in another direction, first of all, to move in the Lord’s direction is going to be painful if we’re still attached to the past. And also it’s just going to be slow. We’re not going to get as much done as we could. Do we want to be able to stand before the Lord at the end of our lives and say, I did not waste a moment. I laid aside every every weight that hindered me from fully pursuing you with all my heart. And I was, and especially in the season of singleness, because in in First Corinthians 7, Paul makes it clear that actually as singles, we’re to be undistracted and completely devoted. That’s actually a special gift that is given to us as singles. Married people don’t have that same possibility. But from the way that I see it, a lot of the time, US singles completely distracted and completely undevoted because we’re so worried about guys. And it’s like, oh, when we get married, then we can be undistracted. Then we can be completely devoted. But right now I just need to worry about this guy that I’ve got a crush on or this guy who rejected me or, you know, and that is not how we’re to be. That’s not what the gift of singleness was given to us for. We need to redeem this time. Yes, it is a hard time. And I can bet most people listening to their podcast are like, I cannot wait to get out of this time. And it’s, it’s difficult, but it’s actually, we need to see that as a gift that we have and not to be burdened down by these things which would like to slow us down or, or change our direction.

Christi: You know, I love the point you’re making about how when God is changing direction on us and it’s slowing down our progress going in his direction for our lives, The main thing that is slowing us down is our emotions. So we’re our desires or longings for something. So I would love to do just a little, I don’t know, rabbit trail into emotions here and just understand them as believers because we know the world has one idea of what emotions are. Believers have a different idea of what they are. How do we manage them? How do we interact with them? God made us and he made us with emotions, so they’re good. But how can understanding them and how they are activated help us be more wise and how we were approach beginning or ending relationships?

Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And we’re talking about emotions really having the power to slow us down from where God was, was, or is wanting to take us if he changes directions. And honestly, I would separate emotion from desire, especially as we’re talking about romantic relationships. I think the emotions that come from a romantic attachment are more to do with desire or longing for that person. Whereas emotions tend to be a response, more responsive thing as far as to what we’re thinking and what we’re believing. And so that’s what makes these emotions that come along with a romantic attachment so sticky because they’re, they’re so closely related to a desire for a for a person. And you could argue that every emotion is really related to a desire, but this desire in particular, I think that romantic emotions seem to. And there’s, it’s just, it’s hard because apart from the Song of Solomon, we don’t really have very much. Yeah, we don’t have very much biblical material on romantic relationships apart from that. And so I think, and when you look in the Song of Solomon and you’re looking at a romantic, those emotions that come along with romantic attachments, you’re just hit with a lot of passion that’s strong and it’s enduring and it’s fierce and it’s jealous and it’s resilient and it doesn’t give up and it makes you sick and it’s, you know, all of these things.

And so first of all, if we’re talking about a beginning of a relationship, that’s really important to understand because if you are starting to get emotionally at all romantically attached to somebody, you’ve got to understand what you’re playing with here. This is potent, this is strong, and God designed it that way for a reason, because romantic love and romantic emotions were intended to facilitate a lifelong marriage where there’s going to be plenty of ups and plenty of downs, and that romantic love is going to be resilient and enduring and jealous. It’s going to help one another to keep that commitment and that covenant that they that they made in the beginning. And ultimately that’s going to be a reflection to the world of Christ’s covenant love with his church. And so the emotions that are going on there are just intense. And so for the beginning of a relationship, you want to understand that because you do have a choice to maybe maybe you’re naturally attracted to someone, but you do have a choice to stir those up even in the Song of Solomon. And that there is some debate about the interpretation of this verse but. I’ve heard wise people talk about this verse in this way as but I’m not dogmatic on this interpretation at all, but it says do not awaken love before it’s time. You know, and and some commentators will say you know that is a restraint. You know, them restraining their romantic emotions for one another because they know where it’s going to head. And if they don’t push the stop button, it’s almost like they won’t be able to help themselves before they’re in that marriage covenant. And so before marriage, and if you look in Song of Solomon, and even if you look at look about how the Lord orders us to treat one another as brothers and sisters in Christ, it’s always with purity. And there’s always this barrier and there’s always this restraint talked about when when we’re talking about relationships and emotional attachment before marriage or just attachment in general. So I think it would just be wise to exercise that in those emotions very cautiously and not not to them without the proper context.

Christi: Yeah, so, so good to remember. And it takes a lot of self-control, especially if you really like someone initially you want to just go all in real fast. And wise people would say pacing. You don’t know this person very well yet. You know, there’s just so many unknowns. And if you go in too heavy and fast at the beginning emotionally and you let all the heartstrings attach, then if it doesn’t proceed, there’s going to be a lot of pain.

Sophie: Yeah, absolutely. And there’s that proverb. There’s lots of proverbs saying about, you know, when you’re loaning someone to something. You know, there’s a proverb, proverb 20:16 and it says take his garment when he becomes a guarantor for a stranger and for foreigners, hold him in pledge basically saying like, don’t loan someone something without having some kind of guarantee. And in romantic relationships we’re we’re really trying each other on before we’re married. You know, we’re kind of loaning each other at our hearts. And it would be foolish to do that without good, good, solid and verbal commitment, you know, and that again, like you said, it’s kind of a little bit of another topic, but I think that is kind of more preventative than it is a cure. And so we’re thinking about how can we prevent it being extremely difficult to move on. Well, just be wise, be be wise with your heart, be wise with your investments. Don’t give more of yourself than has been communicated to you as far as what they want. And if it’s confusing, you need to clear that up because there’s a lot at stake. Eternity, eternal things are at stake. We want to move on with our lives and be make our lives all about the king and the Kingdom and not ourselves and our romantic relationships and being hung up on guys emotionally. And so I think that’s more preventative, but then understanding emotions at the end. Well, really by the end of a relationship, there’s always, there’s always disappointment and there’s always a risk of becoming defeated, despairing and and hopeless. Those are usually the types of emotions that will face sorrow. And perhaps people might feel like they’re slipping into depression. And it’s, it’s definitely so important to understand that we can control our emotions, that we’re not at the mercy of them. They’re a gift from God, but because they identify what we’re really valuing. And so actually they’re useful even at an end of a relationship. If we’re overcome with despair, we can’t move on with life. We just can’t get ourselves to feel happy and joyful about where God has us. Now that might just reflect a little bit more about what we’re really putting our value in, what we’re really desiring ultimately, and also what we’re thinking on. Our emotions are born out of our thoughts and we’re told to take our thoughts captive because our thoughts are so powerful and they can they can drive us in a direction very, very hard and they can feel very, very difficult to to take captive. But we’re commanded to. And God has said, I’ve given you all that you need. No temptation has overcome you that has done that which is common to man. And God is faithful. He’s going to provide that way of escape. And part of that escape is giving the Holy Spirit, giving his word, giving you self-control to manage your thoughts, which are going to inform your beliefs. And when we understand and believe correct and true and an excellent and praiseworthy things in our hearts, that’s going to then in turn inform inform our emotions emotional, you know, joy or or things like that aren’t the end goal. They’re just a reflection that we’re bearing the fruit of the spirit. You know, a steady emotional life is is just good evidence that our heart is in the right place. Our desires are properly ordered. So in a break, break up, that might be a temptation too. It’s just like, I just want to feel better. And you make that your idol. You make that your goal instead of I just want to honor God by believing what He says in His Word about Himself and my circumstances and that will give you extraordinary peace in the end. Enjoy it. But that’s just going to be a result of believing on what is true.

Christi: So how would someone identify if their emotions after a breakup are idolatrous, sinful, or normal? Like what’s how do you? Where’s the pendulum on that?

Sophie: Yeah, that’s good. I mean, as we said at the beginning, there’s the whole book devoted to pretty much lament. It’s like the song that, you know, the Psalms and lamentations. And you know, so much of life is about lamenting in this world because we’re waiting. I forgot to renew it. We live in a synclass world. So. So those emotions aren’t necessarily simple, but how do you identify when they have become sinful? I always, I just love James and I always turn to James for this if I’m struggling to find out where things are coming from or if it’s idolatrous. And in James four, let me just quickly turn there. James four. I think I might have even mentioned this the last time that I was here with you, Christi. And it’s just because it’s so useful and it’s been such a game changer for me in my life. And it says what is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members, you lust and do not have. So you murder. So it’s saying you’re not getting what you want, so you’re going to sin. And so if you’re sinning to get what you want, then you know that you’ve got an idolatrous desire in there because you’re never going to sin if if you’re desire truly is to please God in this moment. And then it goes on to say you are envious and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. And now he’s saying so you don’t get it. And as a response, you sin. So you sin when you don’t get it. So perhaps, perhaps you, yeah, perhaps your, your response to a person is sinful. Perhaps you’re struggling with envy or perhaps you’re going out of your way, you’re doing things that you know are against God’s will or are hurtful to somebody else because you’re trying to get what you want or you haven’t got what you want. And so that’s a a really good way of just trying to figure out, am I idolizing this relationship that has that has gone very simple. And also I would say, can you truly say in your heart, you might be sorrowful, but can you truly say in your heart, Lord, if you, if you never give this to me, you’re enough. And I think you’ve just got to be honest with yourself there. And if not, then you just have to pray. Lord, forgive me this. This has become obviously far greater in my desires than my desire for you. And I’m obviously not understanding how great you are. I’m not understanding or reflecting or meditating on your goodness and your love to a wretched Sinner like me and what you’ve done. And so forgive me for that. And just help me, help me to understand the true reality, which is that you are enough that you are the greatest prize in life. And this relationship that I’m mourning over or that I’m wanting that I’m not getting could only ever ever amount to at the best, second best and that second best by a long ways. And so I think that if, if we’re struggling to find joy in the Lord, that we’re struggling to find hope and comfort in his promises, I think that’s a good indication that our emotions are out of work, that there are that we are out of work in our head. We are, we are, we’re not thinking on on what is true. And perhaps these this relationship and the longing for that relationship has become too great in our heart. Those promises were given to us like medicine for these times. So when times hit like this, we have something to cling to and they’re, they’re so useful and we brush them aside like, Oh yeah, I know God’s working for my good. But Oh yeah, I know God makes me suffer because he wants to comfort me. But, and it’s like, that is the thing that is going to get you through. You got to cling to it during these times. And so if you’re, if you find that you’re saying things like that God is, you know, yeah, God gave me Jesus and he did come and die for me. And I know that he loves me because he died on the cross. But you’ve got to that should be a wake up call that oh, you’re not flinging to God’s promises like he has said to, especially in times of suffering.

Christi: Yeah, so helpful to understand that our emotions are like the check engine light, that they can show what where our idolatry is. And we know that our hearts are idle factories, that they’re just constantly finding other things to worship other than the God of the universe. And so we can identify where those idols are by the emotions. So that’s why it’s so good to not just stuff down emotions or distract yourself from them, but really ask yourself the hard questions like you’re asking Sophie, be honest with yourself and then repent and ask the Lord to just renew your heart for him. And so, yeah, helpful steps to move forward there, but I’d like to know practically, what do we do to move forward when we know something is not God’s will? What are the the practical steps we can start reminding ourselves to help us guide our emotions away from that person or that past relationship?

Sophie: Yeah, there are definitely practical things that we can do apart from dwelling on true truth. I think that we’ve got to put ourselves in a position where dwelling on truth, it is going to be a little bit easier. We’re not going to make it more difficult for ourselves to dwell on, on what is true and what is excellent and what is lovely. And so putting ourselves in a position, especially at the start, not being so proud and being like, yeah, I can do this. I’m going to go straight back into that relationship and we’re going to be friends like, like we were before. You know, I think, yeah, I think that’s an admirable aim to, to restore a friendship with someone. I think that’s admirable, but it just might not be realistic at the start and it might just not be wise. But we want to have peace between all, all of our brothers and sisters in Christ. So what we’re talking about here is not a lack of peace, or it’s not bitterness or it’s not resentment and it’s not acting towards somebody unkindly. But I think it is appropriate, perhaps not ideal, but it might be necessary to distance yourself for a while while you’re struggling with these, these emotional or Roman, especially romantic attachments. Because as we said before, they’re fierce. So if you’ve set your your romantic affections on someone, they’re fierce. They can also be jealous and they can also add that can quickly, quickly develop into a covetousness, especially if that person starts to perhaps give attention elsewhere. And so we’re weak and we’re feeble human beings prone to sin and also just very habitual thinkers. And I think that’s one thing that actually at the beginning, our minds have just, we’ve been going so much in one way that actually we kind of perhaps need to cut this, this friendship off for a while. Again, we’re not talking about about destroying peace between a brother. If there is something that needs to be reconciled, if there’s sin involved, then of course we want to take the steps to reconcile. But if it’s just emotional attachment that we that we need to that we need to move on from being in that person’s presence, all that’s going to do it at the beginning is just remind us all the reasons why they’re so wonderful and why we really, really like them. And that’s going to be make it very, very difficult to move on. So I would say take, take some take some time and take some space away and as much as as much as is possible and kind. And if you happen to be in the same spaces at the same time, being kind is, is, is always a good idea. But you know what, there’s probably 20 other guys that you never speak to in that environment. And it’s not unusual. And so now that person has been categorized into just another one of those twenty guys that you don’t talk to every every week at church or at wherever or that social event. So I think that’s OK for a while. If that does need further clarification, though, if there perhaps is some confusion or you might need to just clarify that with that person. Hey, I’m not ignoring you because I’m angry. I just need to take some time and I hope that you respect that. And nine times out of 10, they’re going to be like, oh, yeah, I totally understand. Go for it.

Christi: Yeah. And to that point, I would, I’m going to point the listeners quickly back to a previous episode I did a few years ago with Lynn Brown on how to recover from a breakup. And if we’re not getting to the question that you think that we should be talking about in this episode, you can go back and listen to that previous one. And we talk through what if the guy doesn’t take no for an answer? Or what if it’s the other way around where he’s clinging to you and you’re trying to get away from him. So if that’s where you’re at, go listen to that. Lynn has some helpful things to to share, but I like how you said, have we’ve become habitual thinkers in a relationship. And I heard this example from Lou Priolo in his book Picking up the Pieces. It’s great. I we recommended a few times on the podcast, but he’s a biblical counselor and just really knows how to address someone after a breakup. But he gave an example in the book that I thought was so helpful just to think about our thinking. Like we’ve talked about our thinking, direct our emotions. And he said, you know, imagine that there’s a bank that you have an account at and we’ll say we’ll just pick a generic name like John and the bank is named John. And you go multiple times a day and deposit a check into John’s account there. Your your wealth is growing and growing as you go. Just, you know, 2050 times a day and deposit that check into John’s account. So to really change that habit, you have to close down your bank account with John. Don’t make any more thought investments there. And in turn, you know, we’re called to put off and put on. So if you’re going to stop thinking about John, you’ve got to put something else in its place. You can memorize the Word. You can. I have another friend who did this. She’s picked a missionary family to begin praying for. Every time she thought about this other man and what she said it helped her do is just realize that God’s purposes and plans were just so much larger than her life and her little, you know, circumstance. And it just broadened her perspective of like, Lord, you’re doing great things in this world. You’re saving souls in Africa. And so she just began praying for this missionary family and redirecting those habit, habitual thoughts from bank account John to missionary. And it works. It’s amazing how if you are disciplined to really make that a habit and a pattern, you can begin to cool those emotions. But emotions are cultivated by thoughts and by actions. So if you are checking his Facebook or Instagram page 10 times a day and watching his stories and looking at his pictures and reading the letter he wrote you and, you know, doing all the things, then you know you’re just going to be feeding. That’s fuel to the fire on your emotions. So you just have to, to retrain yourself not to do those things. And, and I really feel for the women who are in context where they see that man all the time. Maybe it’s at work or a Bible study or something. I mean, I, every guy that I’ve ever dated has been outside of my context and been long distance. And so in a way, when things have ended, it’s been pretty easy to like, I just have to deal with my thoughts, but I’m not like bumping into them every corner. And so I, I just have to say, I really feel for you. If you’re in a place where you’re seeing that person regularly and this is a struggle and plead and ask for the Lord’s help. You know, the Lord is near to the broken hearted and he wants to comfort you. Like you said, Sophie, he wants to be our comforter and that’s why he, you know, allows these painful circumstances to to help us draw ourselves towards him. And, and he is, you know, he is the faithful one. There’s no shadow of turning with the Lord. You know, if you’ve been rejected or, or whatever, you know, you can cling to the one who will never reject you, who will never turn from you. His love is steadfast. I just love how it always talks about the loving kindness of the Lord being steadfast in the Psalms. So yeah, those are just some of my thoughts on on thoughts, but.

Sophie: So helpful and so true. Absolutely taking our thoughts captive is going to be what makes us and breaks us. Moving on and and honestly as well. I was thinking of this as James and I always go back to James. James one consider it all joy, my brothers, when you encounter trials of various kinds. And there is so and he goes on to to to tell us the benefits of suffering. And that’s so counter cultural. And I think that brings us to ask ourselves how much do we want to be near to the Lord? And I remember a while ago, I just got in the habit of listening to this song over and over again, or this hymn called nearer my God to thee. And it says nearer my God to thee, even though it be a cross that raiseth me, even if your plan for me is that I become close to you and the only way that I can become closer to you is through this breakup. I’m going to praise you for that cross that I’m bearing because that really reveals what our true desire is, doesn’t it? If our true desire is to be near to the law, because we know that the nearness of God is our good, that there’s pleasures in his right hand. If we understand that and we we grasp that truth, we would go through a whole load of suffering to get us there because we value it so much. It’s like an athlete. They go through so much pain. I remember going through so much prick pain, but just an athlete success. First of all, I didn’t need to do that anymore, but I used to. How much more should we be able to? Yes. Not not delight in our pain, but delight in the nearness of God, and delight in the pathway that is, that He uses to get us there, that He’s ordained for us to get us there.

Christi: Yeah, and Sophie, I remember a while ago you you explaining it to me this way. You said it’s like when God is rending your heart in a breakup. It’s just that he can plant himself deeper into your affections and desires. And I just I thought that was a great picture that, you know, even more pain. He feels that void with more of himself. And you know, there’s really nothing like this area of life to affect our hearts so deeply and our desires. And So what an opportunity to grow close to the Lord and allow that work to be done.

Sophie: In your life, I would agree through talking to countless numbers of girls and and even perhaps in my own past, knowing that this this is a very particular trial that God uses in a woman’s life, especially to draw her closer to him. It’s painful and it leaves the the woman and I’m sure the men too. I can only speak from the woman’s side, but leaves leaves the woman feeling feeling so helpless and so broken and so empty. There has been she’s open what she’s widened her heart to someone and and so a lot of the Times Now, you know, we don’t like to do that where we like to protect our hearts and we like to close them up. And so it takes a lot for some people to really open them up. And when they open up and that and then there comes a disappointment that’s just kind of feels like that’s just this big hole and there’s this big gap and that is not purposeless that God does that. And I’ve seen time and time again that after this God will do that infilling of himself, give that comfort, give that joy, give that satisfaction, that when that woman comes out of it, she goes, oh, my goodness. Before I was clinging to this relationship for my delight, the Lord in his mercy. At the time I didn’t see it, but the Lord in his mercy tore that from me. And I was like in the desert without any water. And all that I could do was I had to start to dig. You know, I had to dig for water underground now because the Lord just shut up every stream. And so now I’m digging for water. And, and what I found was living water. It forced me to go to Christ. It forced me to see Christ as my husband. Marriage, romantic relationships. They’re wonderful, they’re a blessing, they’re fulfilling, but they’re a shadow of the real thing that they’re really meant to be pointing towards. Like the temple. The temple was supposed to be pointing towards something. It wasn’t to be the actual thing. Like that marriage is is supposed to point us towards something that’s greater. It’s it’s a shadow and a single woman and going through perhaps a breakup or a disappointment. I think that again, is something that we need to set our mind on is that we already have the prize. And if second best has been taken away from you, you, you need to dwell on that reality of I have not lost the main thing. I am, I’ve, I’ve actually, I’ve actually gained something because now I’m forced to dig deeper into Christ for my satisfaction instead of leaning or being tempted to lean on this other person for satisfaction who couldn’t even provide me with as great a satisfaction as Christ could anyway. So in fact, I’ve won, I’ve won in this in this, in this sort of devastating loss. I’ve, I’ve actually won something greater. And that, after all, is greatest plan for us in our suffering.

Christi: Yeah, and so important that we handle this biblically and we go to the Lord and allow him to work in us. Because like you brought out the beginning, one of the outcomes can be if someone doesn’t like the pain, they’ll turn into a stoic, which has a hardening effect. And that’s where you see bitterness come in when someone is like, oh, been there, done that, been hurt. I’m not going to allow that again. And that is not the intended effect that should come about through through this kind of pain. It should make us softer to the Lord. So but we talked briefly about, you know, just somebody in the same context and how difficult that can be. Is it ever appropriate for the woman if she just struggling too much to remove herself from a Bible study from an area of regular contact with this particular guy?

Sophie: Yeah. So I think that we’ve covered this in part already, but I think that there’s something that I just want to caution again or maybe reiterate. And I think that it is we’re always to have a forgiving heart. Just because that something didn’t work out, it doesn’t mean that we can become bitter. And I think a lot of people move away or remove themselves because they’re not struggling with the emotional attachment, but they’re actually struggling with bitterness and they’re perhaps wanting to punish somebody by removing themselves from their lives. And even though that that that can be appropriate because we do want to be undistracted, especially in a ministry setting where we’re serving the Lord, we want to be undistracted in our care and our hospitality to other people who might as well be in that Bible study. And if if that is continuing to be a burden and a distraction and that’s that’s pulling us back from ministry, then I think that that sometimes can be appropriate to perhaps if at all possible. And sometimes it’s not because you’re in a tiny church with, you know, one Bible study and you’re serving and all the all the same things. So it might not be possible. But if that is, it is really sort of distracting you from ministering. I think that’s when we start to have to seek counsel and seek wisdom again. If there was a lot of sin involved, that can be really difficult when you’re navigating the reconciliation process after a breakup to be in the same environment because it feels like that there has to be a separation in that case, because there’s a breakdown of trust and reconciliation takes time. And perhaps there’s conversations that have to happen and it might just make it awkward for everybody else because they both know that you’re not talking to one another and you’ve got sin that needs to be dealt with. And they’re like, can I be friends with this person? Can I talk to you both? You know, it just might make it uncomfortable for everyone in that setting. And again, we want it to be all about the king and the Kingdom. And so if our, our breakup is, is causing, especially in a ministry setting people’s eyes to be distracted or people’s thoughts to be distracted from being all about the king and all about the Kingdom, and then maybe it is more loving for us to remove ourselves from that situation, even if it’s like, well. He should move. Maybe it is just more loving and we can just be humble and remove ourselves from that situation for the foreseeable future. And there’s nothing saying that we can’t eventually come back, you know? So those those are the main things that I would I just reiterate. But yeah, we want to be careful that we’re not just doing it out of a bitter motive to punish someone.

Christi: And if it’s been a significant amount of time, let’s say, to break up happened a year ago, or, you know, maybe it’s just a crush that you have that you just can’t get over and you’re trying to do all the right things. You’re taking your thoughts captive, but it’s just, you know, God does tell us to flee temptation. And if you can’t worship the Lord or serve him because like you said, Sophie, it is such a distraction, then maybe it is worth considering removing yourself if you have the option, if you’re in a larger church or something. So yeah, again, some of these things just need counselors to your specific circumstance. There’s really not a cookie cutter answer. So don’t take what we’re saying and be like, OK, I’m going to do it. And maybe it wouldn’t be best in your situation. So yeah, reach out to someone wiser and older in your church who can objectively give you counsel. Now our last final question. I love this question because it’s ending us on a high note. And this whole episode, we’ve been moving forward. How do we engage our emotions? How do we direct our thoughts? And so how do we just break from the thought process, the habitual thoughts of what we’ve lost or given up, and instead, how can we focus on excitement for the goodness and care of God in our lives and for what is to come in our lives?

Sophie: Oh absolutely. And my mind goes straight to that verse in in Philippians that I consider everything loss compared to the surpassing worth of gaining Christ Jesus my Lord. He is the prize. He is. I think I’ve said it a few times because I think this has just been going through my head so much recently. We we tend to think and we tend to get stuck on marriage is the prize and finding a husband is a prize. This relationship is a prize. It’s a reward for the Lord. They’re great things, but a married woman doesn’t have any more than we do because Christ fills our cup to overflowing. There’s no more room for anything else. And and a relationship really is about giving. A relationship is actually about an overflow in our heart because we are so filled up with the love of Christ. We just need someone to pour it out on. It really isn’t about filling up our cup, our relationship. Our relationship with Christ is because he gives to us abundantly, more than we could ever ask or imagine. And just to meditate on the on the day where we’re going to see him face to face and know that yes, even even this longing for a husband again is just a shadow of the reality that we’re longing for Christ. Every longing in this world that is unfulfilled should point us to our longing for that ultimate consummation of of our marriage to Christ at the at the marriage supper where we get to see him face to face and we get to be with him forever. All of these longings are placed in our lives just as little signposts to yes, there is something missing. You’re not with your king yet. That’s what’s wrong. And so they’re just those signposts so that we, we have the prize, anything that we could, we could hope for in this life again is just second best. And we would do anything to gain more of him right now. And I think that when we have that attitude, even a breakup that pushes us or, or maybe an unfulfilled longing or somebody not reciprocating our feelings, if that pushes us, and it should closer towards desiring and longing for an intimacy with Christ, then Hallelujah, praise the Lord. Because that’s really where the good stuff is. And God is just redirecting our paths in order to get there. You think about the Israelites in the wilderness. God tested them in the wilderness so that they would know that man does not live on bread alone. He’s stripped everything away from them so that they would remember, Yeah, I’m going to give you all of this good stuff, but really, that’s not where your life is, that your life is found in me. Your joy, your contentment, your peace, your eternal destiny. All of the riches that we have in Christ that are recorded for us in our Bibles, they’re all those. That is where we find life. The good gifts in life should just be signposts to the greatest gift.

Christi: So, so powerful, Sophie. And I feel like we’re just, all we’re doing is pointing. We’re taking the listeners by the hand and taking him to the cross and pointing him. And that’s, that’s what our goal is. And so I hope that what has been shared in our discussion just now will be the nudge that somebody needs to stop clinging so tightly to a past relationship or to a man to let go of that. To trust God’s plans, knowing that he is good and kind and wise and powerful and has only our best in his glory and mind for our futures. So we can smile at the future. Knowing He’s directing us, He’s loving us, He’s comforting us, He’s with us. I think you and I have just really that theme of God being with us has been something that has been so special as we’ve gone through the circumstances of life and the trials of life, knowing that He’s with us and he’s going to be there in the future. And so we can let go of the past and we can and smile at the future. That’s the only way I know how to put it.

Sophie: Yeah, it’s a great name. You should name your podcast that it would seem to be visiting. I, I would just want to say one more thing. And it’s, it’s on that. And this is another thing that I think we can think of in these times. And it’s something that you just kind of emphasized here. But if you did not give, if you did not spare his own son for us, how can we say that he’s withholding anything good from us now? And so I think I love that you said we need to be looking at the cross because that’s how much our God loves us. And sometimes when he takes from us, but we doubt his love. But we’ve got to be meditating on the cross and let that dictate how we think about God’s love for us rather than whether we have a guy or not or the circumstances in life. Because that is what God has given us as proof of his love. As proof that I, I, this is how much I love you. I’m going to come, I’m going to be a human. I’m going to suffer the wrath that you deserve. And then I’m going to raise you up. I’m going to forgive you and I’m going to give you eternity in paradise with me. So if you were really meditating on that, can we really then sit for long and eyeing over something that we’ve lost on this? I just think that we would move on a lot quicker.

Christi: Amen. Such a good perspective switch there. And I know I’ve been encouraged by hearing so much of the gospel coming forth in this episode. And that’s, that’s what we live for and what is worth living for. So Sophie, thank you so much for sharing your heart and just what God has taught you with me and the listeners today. And I am excited to hear how the Lord uses it to nudge women along closer to Himself.

Sophie: Thank you, Christi.