EP 110

Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.

Hi ladies, I hope that you all enjoyed your summer and I want to thank you for coming back for another season of the Smiling at the Future podcast. I’ve got a great lineup of interesting episodes to share with you, so stick around this season and you won’t be disappointed. We have added a page to the website that has a list of over 20 books that have been recommended by the different guests on this podcast. So if you’re needing some guidance for reading material, go on over and check that out. And if you have a suggestion for a topic that you want to hear covered on this podcast, you can send those either through Instagram or e-mail them to me at Smiling at the Future, podcast@gmail.com. We are starting out the gate this season with a fabulous episode by Johnny Ardevanis on the gift of singleness. So without further ado, here is that conversation.

Well, Johnny, I’m very honored to have you on the podcast as a guest today because I have benefited so much from the content that you have shared through your dial in ministry. It’s actually one of the few shows that I listen to consistently then, so I want to just give a plug for that and encourage the listeners of this podcast to go over and start following what you’re doing at Dial In. But before we jump into our discussion today, I would love for you to introduce yourself to the listeners.

Yeah, well, thank you for the encouragement. My my name is Johnny Ardevanis. I’m the pastor of Stonebridge Bible Church in Franklin, TN. I have been there for the last couple years and have really enjoyed just the privilege of pastoring. As you mentioned, I have a resource ministry that I’m thankful to provide leadership to. It’s called Dial in Ministries. We release almost daily content through written or podcast format with just the goal and intention of blessing and edifying the body of Christ. And familiarly, you know, that’s just a big part of my life. I’m married with three little girls, Lily, Scotty and Sadie, as three years old, two years old and six months. So I’m in the thick of it right now. And we’re really grateful for God’s kindness, ultimately grateful just to be a child of the Lord. And yeah, thanks for having me on your show.

Yeah, well, I didn’t know that you had all those other responsibilities on top of your ministry with three young kids. So this is, yeah, just a joy to have you here. And I first heard you speak on singleness when you were a guest on Costy Hint Show, which is called For the Gospel. I think that was a few years ago. And I just appreciated the pastoral care that was evident in how you spoke 2 singles about their singleness and how to understand that gift biblically. And that’s the focus of what we’re going to be talking about today is the gift of singleness and where we get that from First Corinthians 7. So just to jump right in here, can you help us understand, for those maybe who aren’t familiar with that phrase, gift of singleness, what is that? And then what are common misconceptions that people have about that?

Well, you’ve, you’ve mentioned just that it’s a biblical idea. So I think that’s probably a place to start in something to reiterate first and foremost, meaning that like when we’re talking about the subject of singleness, we’re not looking at something from a cultural perspective. We’re looking at something from a biblical perspective. And so we’re just trying to recapture and understand what the Bible already says. And we get that idea and we derive it from First Corinthians Chapter 7 is kind of that main thought where Paul says in First Corinthians 7, are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. This is First Corinthians 7, now 28. He says, but if you do marry, you have not sinned. And yeah, he says, and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. This is radical because he’s saying, yeah, not only do you have to get, not have to get married, he’s saying if you do, if you do get married, it’s it’s not that you’ve sinned. So he’s looking at this from a totally different perspective of which we can jump into. But he says, but those who marry will face many troubles in this life. And I want to spare you this. What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is now short. From now on, those who have wives should live as if they do not. Those who mourn as if they did not, those who are happy as if they were not, those who buy something as if it were not theirs to keep. Those who use the things of this world as if it not engrossed them. For the world in its present form is passing away. And he said, I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs, how we can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world, how he can please his wife, and his interests are divided. And bottom line, First Corinthians 735, he says, he says, I’m saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but so that you may live in a way that is undistracted and undivided in their devotion to the Lord. And so the gift of singleness. And I think probably more and more, Christi, I’d want to make a distinction between the calling of singleness and the gift of singleness. I think it’s an appropriate designation and distinction. The gift of singleness, I think is probably, you know what, actually, before I, I would define it out, let me just say that there’s probably 3 categories of people listening to this podcast. There are people that are, are single and know that they’re called to singleness, that they, they want to pursue undistracted devotion to the Lord. And I would say those are the people that have the gift of singleness like, and they know it. If that’s if that makes sense, that would be like a Paul who said, you know, I get the I don’t want to be encumbered. There are secondly those people today who are single, but in the future they may be married and they want to be married and realize they need to start steering the season as unto the Lord and stop pining away as if their life doesn’t start until they actually get a spouse or as if they’re a second class citizen in the Kingdom of God. So they are to steward this season as a gift, if that makes sense, because everyone has the gift of singleness for a season, but they’re to steward it, use it wisely, serve people intensely and contentedly, all while they pray and pursue a spouse. I would include under this banner of, of people that are single today, those who maybe single for the wrong reasons in the sense of like, and this is where I asked you even before we hopped on like, hey, what’s the demographic? Because I would have something different to say about singleness to a 22 year old guy than I would a 39 year old woman who really wants to be married or but a 22 year old guy saying I just want to stack cash until I get to this spot, you know, spot in my life. Third, I would say that there are those people who are single, who want to be married that will remain single until they meet the Lord face to face. I would want to keep these people in mind throughout and not just capriciously or with glib throw out the gift of singleness. I would say that for people both in the second and third category, these are people that have been given a gift of singleness and they need to prayerfully depend on the Lord on how to steward that gift. But I think in regards to the gift of singleness, bottom line, in First Corinthians 7, it’s it’s a season, if not years on end or maybe our entire life that we are to use our singleness, our undivided, undistracted time to pursue the Lord, to make much of his Kingdom, to advance the gospel. But I would say conversely, there are people that like Margaret Clarkson, if you read my book, she was a woman who wrote the book Grace Grows Best in Winter. She said that the first words her mom ever told her she ever uttered were my head hurts because she lived a life of lifelong pain. She writes, you know, reflecting on this and I wrote, I just pulled the quote because I was thinking about it because I think there’s a level of nuance that’s necessary because if you ask Margaret Clarkson, do you have the gift of singleness in her 60s, I think she would have responded and said, I’m not sure, but it is my calling at this point in my life because I think there’s still people even, you know, she said at 6065 years old, she says through no fault or choice of my own, I am unable to express my sexuality in the beauty and intimacy of Christian marriage as God intended what he created me, a sexual being in his own image. To seek to do this outside of marriage is by the clear teaching of Scripture to sin against God and against my own nature. So as a committed Christian, I have no alternative but to live a life of voluntary celibacy. Meaning that it’s maybe not what she wanted, but it’s what God has called her to. She says, to be chased in body as well as in mind and spirit. Since I am now in my 60s, I think that my experience of what this means is valid, she says. I want to go on record as having proved that for those who are committed to do God’s will, his commands are his enablings. And yet my whole being cries out continually for something I may not have. My whole life must be lived in the context of this never ceasing tension. My professional, social, and personal life, my Christian life, are all subject to its constant and powerful pull. But as a Christian, I have no choice but to obey God, cost what it may. I may trust to make it. I trust Him to make it possible for me and to honor him in my singleness. And so I’m not trying to filibuster here, Christi, but I think it’s important to, if I was explaining this to someone at a coffee shop, I would probably do it different than if I was providing a definition in Webster’s Dictionary. Meaning that again, Margaret being the example here of going, if you said you have the gift of celibacy, she would say, I don’t know, this is tough. I want to be married. But this is God’s calling on my life at this point. And I very well may meet him face to face never having been married. But God’s command, God’s commands are his enablings, meaning God never calls you to trust him or live for him exclusively in a certain season of life in a situation where he doesn’t also provide you with the necessary power and sufficiency to be able to accomplish that. So gift is relative to a degree, there’s a season for everyone. If you have a gift and you know it, you’re like the like Paul or maybe John the Baptist or Jeremiah. And I say that because you can never say in Genesis 2, it’s not good for man to be alone as just a universal, you know, for everybody because that would mean that Paul, Jeremiah, Daniel, and Jesus of Nazareth were living outside of God’s will. So that wouldn’t be true. But to be to have the gift of singleness and notice to say, I’m here, I’m single, I’m going to use it to the hilt for the glory of God. To be given that gift and maybe not want it or prefer it or to pray against it doesn’t mean you’re automatically discontent. It just may mean that there’s more difficulty there in learning to trust God and walk by faith and not by sight.

Powerful and helpful to make those distinctions. And I think you shot down to of the misconceptions that people have about the gift of singleness where they do think it’s a lifelong calling. And I like how you brought out that there are those other categories and that also that it doesn’t mean that you have like a muted desire for marriage, that it doesn’t make it that it’s like you have a superpower that makes you invincible to those desires. But no, it’s a struggle. It’s hard. Yeah. So very, I appreciate that you, you broke that down and you provided a little more clarity on what it can look like, what it means. And it means, you know, fruitfulness in life and ministry. It’s, you know, that the gift is not that it’s a gift to yourself, but it’s a gift to that you can give to other people. And you, you spoke a little bit to that as well.

So how do we maintain, you know, First Corinthians 7, it’s talking about singleness, it’s talking about marriage. And it’s easy to compare the gift of marriage and the gift of singleness. You know, I, I think some people will compare the worst parts of singleness to the best parts of marriage. And you can see married people doing that as well. They’re comparing the worst parts of marriage of the best parts of singleness. So how do we strive and and maintain a balanced view of both of these gifts and why is that important that we stay balanced?

You know, I, I think, you know, important question. AW Tozer once said it takes a whole Bible to make a whole Christian, meaning that you can’t put pit one idea in Scripture against another idea. Meaning that when Paul says first Corinthians 7 that singleness is a gift to be stewarded for undistracted, undivided devotion to the Lord. You can’t take that and then erase the reality that in the Scripture, marriage is the grace of life and that he who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord. And so I think you need to always hold the Scripture with a level of balance. And balance isn’t even necessarily a great word because sometimes it means you’re compromising just a little bit here and there to kind of be right down the middle of the fairway. We just need to affirm both realities. Singleness is a gift from God. It says it in the Bible, but then also we read it’s not good for man to be alone. And that the normative, I would say in the Scripture is it would encourage people to go, you know, if you, if you aspire to be married, you’ll try to take some intentionality. And I think we should talk about that obviously as well, meaning like, Hey, let God, you know, let go, let God, he’ll bring me a spouse. I would probably talk to this, I would speak about this in a different manner again, if I was speaking to a 38 year old woman than I was to a 29 year old man because it, there is a distinction. I think with that being said, I also know single guys that really want to get married and have pursued and asked women out and they’ve gone on dates and had their heart broken. So it’s not exclusively a, a female suffering, you know, the in that regards. But I would just say, hey, we need to look at the Scripture holistically. And the church needs to do a better job at this because in our Western contemporary culture, 30% of adults don’t get married, 10% are divorced and 10% are widowed, which means that 50% of the population of many of the churches today are single. They’re unmarried people. So this is not the rarity or the minority of people. I think first of all, just to establish some sort of solidarity. If you’re listening to this and you want, you know, and you’re single, 50% of the church today over the age of 18 is single. So sometimes you look at Instagram and you kind of you conjure up some life of what other people are living. And that’s half, half the people. And then maybe your friends and maybe other people in your family. But a lot of people are in this position. So I think you don’t want to just like in other elements of doctrine, Christi, like if you’re talking about God’s sovereignty and God’s responsibility, how you don’t want to lift 1 up to a crush another one. This is something similar where I would say, hey, single, there’s there’s dangers to being single. I would say, and I would want these things to be communicated because sometimes people try to encourage singles by saying, Hey, this is a gift and then they never warn them of the the dangers, right? And that there’s ditches on both sides to everything. Meaning like if the grass is greener and marriage is your end all be all. Once you get to marriage, you’re going to find out that you married a broken person and there’s sin in that. And so you don’t want to idolize anything. You can idolize singleness or you could idolize marriage and you can live in a constant, you know, state of discontentment. But I think probably as far as maintaining balance, I would say first of all, and you already mentioned it, singleness, our singleness should be stewarded as a gift to the body of Christ. So we’re not thinking all the time about ourselves. Sometimes people start thinking about their singleness and it’s just about what they don’t have, what they haven’t experienced, what they haven’t received. I remember when I was, and I mentioned this maybe on that podcast that you mentioned, but when I was 22, you know, I graduated from Christian University, you know, it was like I was toast, you know, like I’m unmarried, you know, my dad just said, but then, you know, and I was wrong. I got and I ended up getting married at 27, which is not old, not young, you know, necessarily everything’s relative. But my dad came to me at 22 and just said, Johnny, make sure you don’t spend these single years thinking about yourself. This isn’t time for you to go hang out with your buddies. Just, you know, obviously I made some memories, had some great friendships. He just said, make sure you have people pouring into your life that point out your blind spots because you’re going to become more and more insulated. You want to make sure you’re constantly serving other people because what marriage is, if you ever get married and it wasn’t like Johnny, you have to, if you ever get married, Johnny, that would be our prayer for you. That’d be great. We would want to make sure that you’re in the rhythm of thinking about other people because if you’re always thinking about yourself, your savings, your financial goals, your career goals, that’s going to be a hard transition when you go to being married and changing diapers. And so I think I was thankful for that type of, you know, a, a preface and challenge. I think I was encouraged and thankful that my dad encouraged me not to waste my single years. You know, I, I am today a product of my single years. And I say that to mean I, I was really pushed in my single years to be productive with the time that I had. And I know you, you asked a question regarding like, how do we maintain the balance? I think you just have to have a mindset that whether you’re single, you’re married or whether we live or we die, Paul says we’re the Lords, right? So you if you start viewing your life that way as a single person, nothing’s going to change when you’re married. And if you’re married and you, let’s say, God forbid, lose your spouse, you’re still the Lords. So I think that type of overall mentality of going, Hey, when I’m single, my time is to be stewarded as unto the Lord. Teach me Lord, Psalm 90 verse 12, right to number my days, help me to Ephesians redeem the time I I have had that mindset since before I got married and I think it helps me to this day. There’s dangers to the living for the weekend and kind of being, you know, in the in the single, in the single sense, but think going, hey, Lord, my life belongs to you. I did things as a single person that I would never have the opportunity to do now. I was involved in missions, I travelled, I did dangerous stuff. I would say missionally that I wouldn’t do, you know, I would have to think through now as a father, I read about 100 books a year. I don’t have time to do that anymore. You know, I was, and I’m not saying that it’s like Mr. Cool Guy, I’m just saying, Hey, those things were gifts from God. And when I talk to young guys or you know, cuz you know, if hey, talk to a 34 year old on Sunday church, he wants to be married. I asked him how he spends his time and I would say, well, who are you investing? And he said, I want to have sons so I can invest in them. And I said, well, who are you investing in right now? I said, goes go serve on junior high. What makes you think that when you have a kid with the same last name, you’re all of the sudden going to become an investor? And so I think those are just things that I would want to bleed into the DNA of our church going start doing those things now. Your life is not your own. Romans 12. How much how much does God get? Well, he gets our entire life on the altar of sacrifice. And so people also need to frame marriage in a way that’s that’s fair where you’re not looking for the Messiah and your spouse. You know, you’re not trying to marry Elizabeth Elliott and reincarnated. You’re you’re, you’re trying to marry someone that loves the Lord. And and I think the church has done historically a very poor job, Christi at at helping people think through this. You know, they either don’t talk about marriage at all or dating at all or singleness at all. Or when they do, they say I just want to line everyone up here and that’s single and tell them to get married, which which which would be a horrible, horrible thing to do. Because chemistry is also real. And so I think sometimes even that’s even perpetuating the discouragement for a single person when you’re going, oh, this person’s single, what’s wrong with them? Well, it’s like, well, I think there should be some sort of discernment. And discernment is again, not the difference between right and wrong. It’s the difference between right and almost right. And so need to maintain that balance. I, I would candidly encourage young men in our church. Hey, go, go find a spouse, you know, go pursue women. You should be godly, you know, but I also want to talk to people that are discouraged about their single is Hey, steward this gift. It’s not either or because the Bible’s not either or it’s it’s both. And and I would want to do that. I would say in a in a balanced wise way.

Yeah, and you don’t know, you know, what someone’s calling in life is like you said, some people, the Lord could be setting them apart for himself or some good works that he has to do. And I often think of, you know, well, the reason why I’m not married yet is clearly the Lord still has good works for me to do while I’m single. So once those are completed, then the Lord will bring the next season. And so trusting him with that. But there’s so much that you just said that I want to bounce off of, but I’ll just pick a few points to highlight going back to to comparing marriage and singleness. Someone told me the funny quote that, you know, the grass isn’t greener, it’s just brown in different areas. And so once you get to marriage, you’ll realize, yeah, there are challenges here, but you know, again, it’s a gift. So you maximize the potential and see the good that God has for you in it and for his glory ultimately. But I, I think it’s helpful you talk about not fixating or one of the pits is fixating on yourself in your singleness. And I would say, you know, this is something you can fixate on your singleness and your lack of relationship. And I think that can be a distraction from Christ where if, if that’s the only thing you’re, you’re thinking about, you’re making decisions around, you’re talking about with people, the only thing they know about you is that you’re single and you long for marriage. I would say that’s starting to, to be a distraction from your focus of how you can serve Christ. So we need to find a balance in that of desiring marriage, but not making our life about that.

Now, one thing that we see, not only are there a lot of singles, as you pointed out, you know, 50% of the church is single. We are seeing in our culture and in the church just longer prolonged singleness. I don’t know if you have any thoughts of how we should think about that biblically, this, this trend of extended singleness, is it something we can fix? Is it something we should fix? What’s going on there?

Yeah, I know it’s a great question. I, I think, I think in many ways it’s unhealthy, you know, like if you’re talking generally speaking. And so what’s hard, Christi, is you’re always wanted to provide necessary caveats to the things that you’re saying. So it doesn’t sound like you’re, I’m a pastor, so I meet with real people that want to be married, right? That pursue people. And it’s not like they have some maturity issue, right? So I think even what you said about like focusing on your singleness, I think part of God’s will for us all is to rejoice always and everything. Give thanks for this is God’s will for you. You know, like meaning we are to do that regardless of whether we’re married or single. I also think that just maybe one touch on, you know, the grass is greener on the other side. I would, I tell my wife Katie, who’s amazing, I tell her when we talk to people, I want them to think marriage is awesome. And I, I think sometimes when people are trying to encourage singleness, when they’re trying to encourage people that are single, they poo, poo on their marriage a little bit, you know, and I also think that’s dumb. Meaning like be like, Hey, listen, you’re single and want to be married. Let me tell you, marriage is also really hard. I, I’m not, I’m not, I’m not that guy. I actually don’t like that. I, when I talk to young people or single people in general, I’m not trying to go, you know what, Katie’s actually been really hard for me lately. You know, like, I’m going, Hey, I have the best wife in the world and I love being a dad. Because you’re asking about prolonged seasons of singleness. And I think part of it is because people are put in a weird spot of not knowing how to kind of spur one another on. Hey, get to it. Go ask that girl out, you know, without being like, whoa, whoa, are you, you know, I’ve tried and and that’s discouraging. So it’s, it is a it’s a nuanced spot depending on the person. That’s why it’s hard to just say something from like a billboard perspective. Here’s my opinion on singleness because knowing your story, I would maybe talk to a totally different than Greg, hypothetically. And I’m like, Greg, you’re the pickiest guy in the world. Stop being, you know, stop being like a Peter Pan that shaves. Grow up. Ask her out, dude. You know, like stop waiting for this perfect person that doesn’t exist or that would be different than the guy that’s going, Hey, you know what I’ve tried. I’ve really discouraged. I’m working through some things, you know, So in regards to why is it being prolonged, I would say, first of all, people don’t talk about how awesome marriage is. That’s that might be a thing. I don’t find I don’t you maybe come from an environment and I do where it was like, Hey, marriage is is is the ultimate. If you graduate Christian university and you’re not married, you’re outside of God’s will. I so I think a lot of people have flipped to the other side of that spectrum and there’s not a lot in the church where it’s going. Hey, we want to lay out singleness as a gift, but I also want to lay out marriage as the grace of life. Doing both of those things is really important and I’m not really sure that there’s been presented this like God honoring human dignifying high noble gifts. That is marriage. It’s God’s gift, you know, and I think the church needs to do a better job at that. Second of all, you’d have to especially for the guy side. You mean, I don’t know. I think the stats are 70% of guys look at pornography. You’d have to you’d have to say that’s affected it to a degree because Paul says if anyone burns with passion, it’s better for him to get married. Part of the reason I think that that’s you don’t see that like Dr. amongst guys is because there’s a very sinful component of it even within the church today. So sometimes when I ask guys if they’re wanting to get married and they say no, I asked them, Hey, are you fulfilling your God-given sexual drive in ways that dishonor God? And I think that’s a factor and it’s not just an issue amongst men. That’s an issue for women as well, right? So I think that’s you would you would have to convince me that’s not at least somewhat of a factor. Third, I, I think, you know, going back to presenting the calling for marriage to there’s this reality of sexual impurity, cohabitation. People date and they act like they’re married when they’re not married. I think even in the church, people do that in an emotional way, even if it’s not physical. They become kind of compatibles, you know, cohabitants of emotional support. That’s I, I think I’m totally against, I’m totally against your two hour long quiet time at night with your girlfriend. You’re not, you know, so I think that’s, that’s part of it too. You have like best friend situations that I don’t think are always super healthy between people of the opposite sex, where it’s confusing and sometimes it, it’s fulfilling the function of a spouse inadvertently. And I know that there may be some nuance there, but I think in general, those things can be unhealthy. Sir, I don’t know if I’m on 3 or 4, but I, I think, I think people receive bad counsel. And that would be another reason of prolonged singleness like this. Other day somebody called me and said, you know, I’m not financially ready to support my wife, you know, that or my girlfriend. That’s why we haven’t proposed. They’ve been dating for four years. And I said, listen, dude, I if this was my if I, I said if this girl was my daughter, I’d tell her to dump you. You know, like why? I said, what are you doing? He said, well, someone told me I had to have 100 grand in my bank. This is a quote 100 grand in my bank account before I’m financially ready to provide. You know, I’m like, who told you that? It’s a guy at a church. You know, it’s like, I’m like, well, that’s dumb. You know, you should be able to put food on the table in a one bedroom apartment. And if she got hypothetically pregnant on your honeymoon, you should be able to scrape by on what you make, you know, so I think there’s bad information. That’s just an example of like, you know, I would I want to be able to provide. I’m like, we have a great job. What do you mean by that? And in his mind, it’s a new suburban with A5 bedroom house. And so, and that’s just an example of, I think some bad information, bad advice that people get. So that’s why I’m always careful to conflate my personal opinion between biblical reality. When I cross into the threshold of personal opinion. I would want to make sure, hey, you know what, there’s no chapter verse on this, but here’s what I’ve seen. And so that might be a few reasons.

Yeah, no, I think those are all helpful. And I, I don’t think that, yeah, there’s one reason that explains the, the trends that we’re seeing. But I, I have seen all of those as well. And I, I wonder too if some people just are maybe lack conviction about marriage. They’re just kind of ambivalent towards it, where, you know, if it happens it does, but they don’t, they’re not thinking from, you know, a young age that this is the trajectory that I want to go towards. This is what I’m working towards. So I, I would be concerned if someone is single because they don’t have any plan or goals or purpose that they’re moving towards, that they’re just kind of floating. And, you know, whatever case or whatever happens, happens, you know, you should have convictions, you should have goals, you should be, and obviously you entrust all those into the hands of the Lord and man plans his way and the Lord directs his steps. So God could not provide that, but you, we are called to plan. And so, and I, I want to also go back to the point you made on emotional attachments. And I wonder this too, even with like singles groups you have, which is, you know, a nice time to, to bring people together where they could meet someone like minded. But then I’ve also seen those get extended where people just end up hanging out all the time and there’s no movement towards marriage. And so there is in some ways, even in kind of a group setting, might not be one-on-one, but the men feel relationally satisfied by all the hangout times that they’re getting and, and don’t feel the need to, to take that step towards marriage and women too. But I, I wonder if that can affect men. And then to your point about like the financial stability, I had Chris Hamilton on and he, he shared that he tells men you need to have first and last month’s rent, enough money for a ring and a honeymoon and you’re set to get married. And I think women need to be gracious in that as well and contentment with less and not expecting their standard of living to be what it was when they left their parents home. But to be willing to go down a few notches and build a life with someone. And yeah, just not not have expectations for a certain lifestyle at the outset of their life together.

So one thing with extended singleness, you know, it can be a temptation especially for the women to be frustrated, maybe the lack of maturity among the men, but they can just be critical of how they’re stewarding their singleness and relationship. So do you have any, I guess encouragement? How can we guard against that spirit of resentment towards others and have a more Christ like perspective and response towards them?

Yeah, I think you, I think it’s important not to be bitter. You know, let no root of bitterness spring up within you, that it may defile you is what Hebrews says. So bitterness is dangerous. I think first of all, understanding that that type of resentment, that type of like chip on your shoulder about men in general is for, you know, and in a self seeking way, it’s also going to make you unattractive. You know, meaning like no one wants to marry someone that’s angry, you know, like, or goes into a conversation assuming the other guy is a slacker or unintentional or he’s still, you know, like that’s just, and I’m saying this, if this was my sister talking to me, I’ve got five sisters. I would encourage my sisters. One of them is in her late 20s, you know, mid late 20s, single, wants to be married. I would say, listen, you don’t want to make it sound like you’re bitter. You know the three really attractive qualities for a guy and a girl and vice versa. A girl with a guy, be a hard worker, serve your brains out and don’t gossip. That’s what I tell my sister, right? Like you don’t want to be the single person that that kind of finds commonality and establishes relationships by knowing the T knowing what’s happening, being a, a whisperer is what Proverbs talks about, you know, So if that’s the woman of valor and dignity and proverbs, that’s what I would tell my, my sister, so to speak of going like, hey, as far as the discontentment, I would say I would try to protect her. And I pray for that. Meaning one of my sisters has dated multiple guys that through no fault of her own, it’s just ended. And the guys it had to end. I, I wouldn’t, I encourage, I said, I told her, I said don’t get bitter. Don’t get bitter. This is the Lord’s plan for your life. Better to be single than marry the wrong guy. And so I want to encourage her. And I, you know, and I, I said, listen, here’s how I would help you not to get bitter is by seeing this through God’s Providence, what it allows you to do. She’s serving in different capacities and she’s the best. I mean, so just even as an encouragement, I would never want her to see her singleness as some sort of blight on her character or personality. She’s amazing. You know, sometimes people say that like, what’s what’s the deal here? Not her fault. She’s the best. So I, I wouldn’t want the resentment to the on the one hand to, to, to blossom and now on the other hand, I wouldn’t want it to be insecurity. I think too, in regards to not being resentful, if you feel your time serving people and you’re thinking about others and needs more important than your own, it really does prevent even your mental capacity to be frustrated or bitter, right, Because you’re I, I think that’s a gift. You know, I was thinking about it and 1st Thessalonians, Paul, Paul basically tells the Thessalonians, aspire to live a quiet life, to work with your hands and to mind your own business. And I like that idea. It’s unrelated, but I’ve been preaching through this series on work. And so I’ve been thinking about it. But I think it’s true of a lot of things in life. Meaning, if you put your head down and you serve people and that doesn’t mean you’re not prayerfully asking God for a spouse, but it does even shape the way you think of them. You know, of not growing bitter, not going, you know, the fastest way or the quickest way to not grow bitter towards someone is to serve them. And so I, I think 1 caveat too, that you’ve mentioned in regards to why there’s prolonged singleness, I think it’s because people aren’t told how to pursue a spouse. And I also think churches in general haven’t done, I think put women in a confusing place knowing how they are to operate and they want to ascertain if a guy has will lead them. And sometimes they misinterpret that for like, this guy’s going to really need to pursue me if, you know, in order for me to be interested. So I know he’s a leader. And I also think that’s unbiblical. So I think people ping pong back and forth. But that was just that was maybe going back to what we had said. But I think just in general, I, I think serve people, be grateful for every circumstance. That’s not my opinion. That’s just the scripture. And if you’re grateful and joyful and Paul says suffering, we’re, we’re, we’re rejoicing always, even if we’re suffering. I, I think then it will kind of crowd out even your ability to be a mopper, which I think is important. And suffering too, is relative meaning some people would say is my struggle with singleness, my desire for a marriage. Is that suffering? When I think about my friend with cancer and Elizabeth Elliott who lost two husbands would say, yes, that is suffering because suffering is anything you have that you don’t want or anything you don’t have that you do want. And she provides allowance for that because everyone was coming up to Elizabeth Elliott after the death of 1 not only one, but two husbands saying, you know, I haven’t suffered on your level. And she said, don’t always say that. You know, listen, if you’re if you’re in your 40s and you’ve been wanting to get married and you’ve been praying for a spouse and God has continually said no, and you’re lonely, that is suffering. And you can look at that even as a trial. And that’s why I wanted the nuance, even the category of gift going, Hey, this this season, this decade is something the Lord is putting in your life to to refine you and to use you. And if you view it that way, then then you won’t grow resentful. You’ll have joy. You know, that’s what James says.

Yeah, and that’s the just that switch of perspective of not what you don’t have, but on what what is God doing in my life through this, that it makes all the difference in trials of where you’re fixing your gaze. What are you focusing on? But really good points about just not growing bitter. And I think what, what’s so interesting about bitterness is it’s just an aroma. It can become, you know, people can sense it from a mile away. And and it also can affect and and infect those around you, as we know, the root of bitterness. So it’s just we have to be on guard against it. It’s one of those things that we can feel so justified in. So it can be blinding in that way that we, we don’t see it as bitterness because it’s, you know, this is truth, this is reality, but striving for thankfulness instead. And you know, one thing I, I think if you’re as a single person, if you’re fault finding and looking at others and being critical of them, that’s just going to transfer over into a future marriage. And one thing I know with having five brothers is that if, if, you know, I want to encourage change, or if I see an area that I would hope that they would change in, the best way to do that is through encouragement instead of, you know, reading them the riot act of, you know, whatever it is. So you know, if you’re concerned about the the men in your life, find ways to encourage the good that will definitely spur them on Critical. A critical spirit just is like a wet blanket. It really never brings around the needed or wanted results. But also love that you talked about insecurity as well as being something to be on guard against if if you’re in a prolonged season of singleness and just meditating on the sovereignty of God. And I mean, this podcast, we’ve talked about that theme so many times where if God wants someone married, he will get them married regardless of whatever you’re insecure about, if it’s your looks or your personality or you know, that doesn’t negate that we were supposed to be good stewards of taking care of our bodies and all of that. But I think we all know people that are married now that we’re surprised by. And it’s just God’s sovereignty in it that when he wants that gift to come to you, he will bring it. And so you just trust him and keep moving forward.

So how do we cultivate a desire for marriage, not make it an idol? And then also just how have you seen women leverage their singleness? Any any examples you can give?

Yeah, I I think just the the first question being how do we cultivate a desire for marriage? I think when you look to the Scripture, this is a blessing. This is AI think in many ways a desire that God gives to most people like, hey, I want to be married. I think that’s something that should be pursued and I think people need to work within the confines as their local church to to be able to not, not saying they have to marry someone at their local church, but just saying like, hey, this is something that should be cultivated at a church level, not just a single persons level. Meaning like families need to do a good job at this. When I’m raising my 3 little girls, I’m going to, I’m coaching them on what family is, what marriage is, what being a wife and a mother is. And that’s something that churches need to teach families to do and mommies and daddies need to do with their babies. And so it’s not something that I would say that like, hey, this should be only cultivated in one pocket of the church amongst a single group of, you know, a certain demographic of people. I think marriage should be championed. It’s the central metaphor in the Scripture, meaning like God’s, you know, Jesus comes back for the bride of Christ. So that’s what we often say when culturally people try to distort and tamper with marriage. It’s not a cultural construct. It’s a biblical 1. The Bible starts with a marriage, it ends with a marriage. And so it’s important. So I, I cast that high vision. I wouldn’t make it an idol by saying, hey, this is not what God has for everyone. And it’s also not the end all be all. We’re not Matthew 22. We’re not all going to be married in heaven. You know, like we’re going to be citizens of God’s Kingdom. We’re going to be Co heirs with Christ. So but no one is married for all of eternity and just saying, hey, we’ve been. Paul says the time has been cut short. We have a short life to live and we want to live faithfully for God, and yet we also want to pray for and pursue a spouse, Meaning like asking God to provide something isn’t the enemy of us pursuing that. Just like if someone was saying, I’m I’m praying for a job, if a guy told me I’m praying for a job, I would say I’ll have you knocked on any doors, right? Like, hey, go do something about it. But if you knocked on all the doors and the Lord still hasn’t provided a job, then you know, OK, you’re in a season where the Lord is teaching you to wait on him. But you can’t really say that if you haven’t pursued any job, you know, openings, right? So I would say I would push people to be active, especially young men and yeah, especially men in general. As far as how of women’s steward of their singleness, I think that they first of all have to have the right perspective of it, right? So they have to see it as a as a gift from the Lord because everything in our life, even the difficulties are gift from God because he’s refining us or he’s using US and and part of the loneliness that we experience is, is true. That’s maybe a derivative of living as a fallen creature in a fallen world. And this life isn’t our home. You know, this is a motel we’re passing through. Hebrew says we’re looking forward to a better country. But I would say you have to go into it with the right perspective. But I can at least say this, Christi, with great confidence. My life has been transformed by single women. So I I can speak personally. My life was personally changed by my Sunday school teacher, who was a single woman who encouraged me to memorize the Bible and I talk about her at church on Sundays. But she was the woman in first grade that started giving me packs of cards for memorizing like NBA football, basketball cards for memorizing the Bible. And as a preacher, as a writer, podcaster today, I have so much truth hidden into my heart because this woman, she, she rose with me in my classes from 1st through 5th grade. And so God used her in my life And my passion for people memorizing the Scripture today is yes, a component of maybe the family dynamic I grew up in my mom, but Miss Wendy. And so my life was changed by her Corey Tim boom. My life’s been very changed by Corey Tim Boom in regards to her trusting of the Lord. You mentioned to God’s sovereignty. My book that I wrote on anxiety was really the first book I ever read on anxiety that I was like, OK, you know, like this is transformative was her book Don’t wrestle, just Nestle. And so that was really impactful for me. And so she she stewarded her life and her years for the glory of God and the advancement of the gospel. And you know, as far as women’s stewarding that I think it’s just important to realize like, I’m a man, right? I’m a pastor of a church. I’m still reading a dead single woman’s words on a weekly basis. Margaret Clarkson, I already mentioned, she was probably one of the bigger inspirations behind some of my writing on the sovereignty of God. She says it’s the one impregnable rock that you can cling to amidst the storms of life. And so I read Spurgeon, right? I read Jonathan Edwards, but I read Margaret Clarkson and I read Corey, Tim Boom, and my life was changed by a woman you’ll never know and never heard of named Miss Wendy. And so I would just encourage people to be faithful where they are and to never underestimate the ripple effect of faithfulness. There’s a story that I used to tell small group leaders when they came to camp of Edward Kimball, I think is his name, and he was a shoe cobbler. And you know, a guy walked, a young boy walked into his store and he just felt the burden to share Christ with him and then start meeting with him. And then eventually he led that boy to the Lord. And he said, I felt silly. I, I, I’m just a shoe cobbler. Who am I to share Christ with someone? I have no gifts. I’m just a shoe cobbler, but he said I the Lord put it on my heart and I said, young man, you need Christ. And that young man’s name was DL Moody and to became one of the greatest evangelists in human history and led to the Lord by a shoe cobbler you’ve never met, never heard of no, no schools named after Edward Kimball. But I think that’s true of every one of our lives and that in glory, we’ll see the ripple effect of faithfulness. But sometimes even people, especially even with singleness, one day you’re going to understand why you’re single all these years. Well, maybe not, maybe not. But in glory, that’s why I love that poem that Corey Tim Boom references, the grand Weaver. We see the underside of the tapestry, meaning all the disarray, all the knots, all the wrinkles. God, where are you? God, where are you? But the grand Weaver, he sees the upper side of the tapestry. He knows what He’s weaving for His glory and our good. And one day we’ll look back and see the canvas that he was painting, not only for our good, but for the collective good of all of his people and for His glory. And so I think that perspective is necessary, but I would also just encourage men and women that are single to be faithful where they’re at, to trust the Lord and appropriately find camaraderie, companionship and friendship amongst the body of Christ because Jesus was single and he was known as the best of friends. No longer do I call you slaves. He says I call you friends. And so I think the closest friendships are people you serve alongside. So when I talk to my sister, for instance, I would say, hey, serve with people, love those people, you know, And I think the Lord will use you even in the midst of the unknown.

Yeah, that’s so powerful. And it’s just helpful to recognize that we can have a legacy and just gives us vision that we don’t stagnate in our singleness or become frustrated with it. But it’s hopeful to have vision of what it could be and trust the Lord to change, shift that season in his way, his time with his man. And if not, then you know he will continue to satisfy us completely. I love there’s a quote by Sam Albury, who’s a pastor who’s been single his whole life. He said that the key to contentment as a single person isn’t being content in singleness. It’s being content in Christ as a single person. And so just recognizing that that’s, that’s where our heart is, that’s where our focus is, is in Christ. We’re not just focusing on this state that we’re in. We’re we’re looking outside of ourselves and to someone else.

So thank you, Johnny, for for sharing what you did. It was so edifying and I think it’s really going to encourage. I know it didn’t mean I know it’ll encourage the listeners to embrace and maximize this gift for the glory of God. So thank you so much for your time today and I just appreciate it so much.

My pleasure, Christi. Well, thank you and blessings to your listeners.