EP 57

Christi: Welcome to the smiling at the future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to clean practical wisdom on femininity homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God-fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future. Hi ladies.

Christi: This is another conversation that I know will leave you with hope and give you a greater ability to trust the Lord’s Providence, even in The Valleys of life. I’ve invited Liz Tittel back on the podcast today to help guide our hearts and minds if we should ever walk through a breakup. And I think her own example of living this out combined with her love and knowledge of God’s word will make this a really helpful episode for those who are recovering from a breakup or for those who are coming alongside someone hurting in this way.

Christi: So here again to bring us encouragement is our very own Liz Tittel. Hi, Liz. You are a regular guest. And now, this is your fourth time, I believe on the podcast. But for those new today, please give us some background on who you are and where God has you today in your life?

Liz: Sure, my name is Liz. I’m married to Josh. We have three little boys, aged three and a half, two and a half, and one, and one on the way doing end of October or beginning of November. I had the pleasure of yeah rooming with you Christi for a season when I lived in Los Angeles and and your sister and I got to be one of the adopted siblings of your family. So yeah, I feel like we’re close friends and Sisters in Christ.

Liz: As far as where the Lord has me today, about four and a half years ago, I married Josh, moved out to Kansas where we are involved in a small local church. Small, I guess being somewhat relative, compared to Grace. It’s not small right now. It’s about 250 people. Josh and I do a lot of discipleship, counseling, a lot of discipleship, if you can really separate the two. Yeah, we’re busy raising our boys, and love being involved in our church, and whatever the Lord has for us there.

Christi: Well, Liz, the past topics that you’ve come on the podcast for have all been different from each other, but they’ve all had some, you know, been challenging to some degree or another. You talked about buying a house as a single woman, which you did. You talked about living with roommates and cultivating that culture among roommates. Also, you and Josh came on and talked about dating someone who had previously been divorced, which was part of your story with Josh. So for the listeners, if you want to go back and take a listen to any of those previous episodes, I know you’ll be encouraged.

Christi: So you’re not afraid to tackle difficult or sobering topics and we are going to do that again today. And for the listeners, you know what to do. If this is not an episode that you need to apply right now, you may know someone who is hurting and in the wake of a breakup and so you can share this with them. And if you are someone who has just walked through the ending of a relationship, I hope the answers to these questions that you may be asking will help you pick up the pieces, walk forward with more peace and joy as you respond in a way that honors the Lord.

Christi: So before we jump into the questions just to set this topic up and to share kind of the experience behind it. Liz, would you share why this topic resonates with you in God’s Providence and faithfulness?

Liz: About eight years ago, I dated and was engaged to a young man. Definitely thought we were getting married and shortly before the wedding, less than three weeks before the wedding, it became very clear that continuing on that path would not be wise. I had good counsel and I don’t know how much detail I’d go into. But basically, I communicated a concern at our last premarital meeting that it would be good to keep meeting after the wedding, I thought to help us work through it on the other side. And that just kind of put up a red flag to the counselors. And they kind of saw it, kind of dug a little deeper and kind of got to the bottom of some things. I’d had suspicions on throughout the relationship and tried to think the best of the situation and the people involved and it became very clear over the weekend if you will to them that this was not a good thing going forward.

Liz: And in God’s mercy, he provided wise counsel to me to seriously consider what my life might look like going forward, if I continued with the relationship. So I called the wedding off and yeah, had to work through a lot of the things. I would say all of the things that you’ve you know, written questions about. Yes. In one sense, I look back and go, why was I so dumb? Like how did I not see these things? Why was I even in that relationship or, you know, whatever those thoughts can be, but even those aren’t necessarily god-honoring because yes, I lacked wisdom in the moment but also the Lord definitely used that to grow me and mature me.

Liz: I think of Second Corinthians 1 verses three through five: “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our affliction so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. For as we share abundantly in Christ’s sufferings, so through Christ, we share abundantly in comfort too.”

Liz: So yes, in the moment, it was extremely difficult. The emotions are difficult, the logistics of canceling a wedding and returning wedding gifts is difficult. Moving all your stuff back, you know, I had already moved, I was still living in my home, but had moved the majority of my belongings to his home in anticipation of the wedding. Yeah, there was a lot to work through, but I wouldn’t trade any of it. The Lord taught me so many important lessons in that season. And through that difficulty, he revealed more of himself to me.

Liz: And then, you know, fast forward quite a few years and I met and married Josh, who as we spoke about on the previous, one of the previous podcast, he had been married for about 10 years before he came to know the Lord and then within a few years his wife divorced him. So we both come to our relationship with a past, if you will. And as a result of those paths that we both have, there’s things we appreciate about each other, much more than we would have, if God had never taken us through the things that he did.

Liz: So that was the, that’s the situation. That’s the most I guess on my mind. I did have one other relationship that wasn’t as serious and that it also became clear that it was unwise for me to continue in and so I called that one off as well. I do not have the experience of being broken up with but you know, as we address questions, that relate to that, God’s word is true and that’s ultimately where any of the authority of anything I might say comes from. It’s not my experience or, you know, my wisdom but there it comes from the word of God.

Christi: So thank you, Liz. I appreciate you sharing that and just being transparent and open. And for the listeners, we did cover another episode on this topic of walking through a breakup. Lynn Brown did that, and we covered questions such as rejection and things of that nature. So, if we don’t get to what you’re thinking or hoping we’ll answer in this one, go back and take a listen to that previous one and it may cover some of the other areas.

Christi: But for our first question, you know, it’s one thing to just struggle with being single and not being in a relationship but it’s quite an adjustment to go back to singleness after a breakup because there’s just a lot of layers involved. You’re not only dealing with all the emotions from The Break-Up, but you’re feeling a void in your life. You know, this other person may have been a big part of your life and the possible future that you’re envisioning with this person has also evaporated. So for someone who’s in that place, maybe this is all new to them and this is just a really sorrowful place to be in. How would you encourage that person?

Liz: Sure. That’s a I think that’s the biggest question in here, personally, and it kind of is in one sense, lays the foundation, for how the rest of the questions will get answered. But I think it starts with having a biblical theology of your emotions and understanding where they come from, how they are supposed to work to help us glorify God as creatures. Yes. The emotions are overwhelming, or overwhelmed means to bury or drown beneath a large mass.

Liz: And in the wake of a breakup, especially one where perhaps you had literally planned a future with this person, as I mentioned, there’s the details, logistics, if you will, that you’re dealing with and then there’s all the emotions, you mentioned a few, void, disappointment, death of a dream, if you will, of the future with that person, missing them. I know. I felt like I felt like my former fiance had died in a sense. And since I was the one who’d done the breaking up, I had killed him and could resurrect him, at any moment, if I just picked up the phone, if that makes sense.

Liz: I can’t say it would be harder than a death of someone, but there was less closure if that makes sense. So there was for a time for me at least there was a wondering, if there would be repentance, if we would be able to work things out over time, if there would be changes, and that lack of closure, made it difficult definitely, to deal with some of those emotions, to deal with the reality of what was happening that day, if that makes sense.

Liz: So emotions, emotions are part of our humanity. That’s part of how we are made in the image of God. God has and expresses his emotions. For the most part though, our emotions are a product of our thinking, the desires of our heart, the thoughts that we entertain, the values that we have. So understanding how our hearts work, not our physical hearts, but our spiritual hearts, if you will, like the control center of our persons, is important to understand. And the way that you are thinking about your situation, may not be easy to track because it is especially in those first days or months, there are so many thoughts, but it’s so important to talk to yourself more than you listen to yourself. You speak the truth to yourself to have a sound mind, meaning consistent with reality, not what you imagined to be or what you hope to be.

Liz: I think of Psalm 94:19. It says, “When the cares of my heart are many, your consolations cheer my soul.” So the psalmist understands the feeling of many cares being weighed down by that but turning to the consolations of scripture, to cheer his soul. So some biblical principles in addressing those emotions, in Christ, you’re able to respond in a godly manner, to the trial in the heart attitudes exposed by your emotions. Emotions are in many ways like a check engine light. They tell you that your heart is valuing something or is maybe worshiping something or is has placed an inordinate priority on. So emotions are helpful.

Liz: When I get angry, I know there’s something I’m not getting that I want and think I deserve. So I can stop and think like what is it that I’m wanting that I’m not getting that I think I deserve right now? Is that control? Is it peace and quiet? And then the same thing with breakups, you got to look at in one sense, individual emotion and think through what you’re thinking. That’s influencing the way that you feel. I’m just going to say you can’t turn your feelings off but you can turn them around through practicing self-control. And especially, I mean, if you were really, if this relationship has gone on for extended period of time and there is a lot of emotions involved, yeah, just know that it’s going to be a process and the emotions will subside, but especially at the beginning, they’re going to be so strong. And you can’t get around it. I think it’s going to be there but knowing how to direct them and how to direct your thoughts and to surround yourself with people who can speak, truth to you, when you’re having a hard time, seeing that yourself who can speak the word of God to your heart, who can bring you back to reality from the roller coaster of your emotions.

Christi: And I had someone tell me something that was really helpful. They said, you know, it’s This is its right to be emotional and to feel that about this breakup because in no other experience in our lives, do we do this, where we pour hours and hours, into developing a relationship with someone, learning to love them and then you just cut it off. It’s just so unnatural and not how the Lord designed relationships to be. You know, it’s part of the curse, part of the Fall. But we can respond in a way that honors the Lord. So we’ll talk through how we can do that. But that’s just some of the thoughts I wanted to share.

Liz: Yeah. No, that’s super helpful. Kind of piggybacking off of a couple things. You said, in terms of surrounding yourself with godly people who can speak, truth to you, when you can’t, when you’re really struggling to think straight because everything is cloudy, I would encourage you to be selective with the people, you share all the details with. Choose wise, godly people who can be part of the solution. Not just people, you vent to, and then keep that circle small in part to perhaps protect the other party, not everyone needs to know all the details of why you broke up and that will come at the cost of being misunderstood and perhaps judged and not thought accurately of. But yeah, we’re called not to gossip or slander other people.

Liz: So for me, that meant the people who were immediately involved in counseling. Me in the situation knew and a few people very close to me knew more of the details. And I certainly didn’t do this perfectly but just definitely try to keep the details to that smaller circle of people who are close and who could be part of the solution, be praying for me and helping me think straight. And it did something to cause there’s some people who bemoaned the breakup and hope that we would get back together without knowing the details of it. And that was hard to hear because you just want to vindicate yourself, but that’s not necessary.

Liz: And then like you said, it is a reminder of the Fall. It’s a reminder that this is not the way things are supposed to be. This is not the way relationships are supposed to go, but it’s a reminder of the Gospel that we have been separated as sinners from God, we’re all in need of reconciliation to God, as we’ve been separated by our sin and that solution that resolution for that reconciliation is the person and work of Jesus Christ. So it’s an opportunity to examine our own hearts of where, where are we in the most important relationship we could have and that’s our relationship with our creator. This situation can reveal a lot about our hearts and what we’ve value.

Liz: I think one of the best resources that I came across and refer, well, referred to multiple times in this conversation, is the book Picking up the Pieces by Lou Priolo. In the very, very back, he talks about I was going to maybe say this at the beginning, but actually just kind of want to read this because it’s almost a qualification for me, using the word or the term “ex” in this podcast. And I love what he said about it. He said he’d thought long and hard about whether or not to use the word ex in the book. “Apart from it, not being a biblical term, the word which is slang for former spouse or partner, disturbs me a bit because of its association with concepts such as exclude, exile, expel, expire, expunge, exterminate and expendable, all of which have connotations that may not fall in line with the biblical way to think about the other person.”

Liz: He goes on to say, “He decided to use it because he couldn’t find another exact English synonym that expresses the idea so succinctly, but what he requests, he says, as you come across this term in your reading, I’d like to ask you to think of it as an abbreviation for the word examiner, that is, I’d like you to view your ex as the person whom the Lord has chosen to examine you. According to the dictionary, the word examine means to determine the qualifications, aptitude or skills of, by means of questions or exercises. From now on, why not, try to think of your former sweetheart, the person whom the Lord has used and is using to test your character for the purpose of revealing, to you your strengths and weaknesses.” Then I just love that, the Lord chose this person to examine you and to test you and to make you more into the image of Christ and what a fantastic way to think about someone that we otherwise might be tempted to be bitter towards.

Christi: Yeah. And you know, when I went through a breakup and it was hurt and I was hurting so much. I just did not want to waste that pain. I was just crying out to the Lord. Lord teach me what you want me to learn through this because this is so painful, but I want to learn the lessons you have for me in this pain. And like Liz, you brought out earlier so that you can comfort others who have been through trials and how that’s a biblical reason that God can take us through pain is so that we can comfort others with the comfort he’s comforted us with.

Christi: Shortly after I went through a breakup, another dear friend of mine did as well. And so it was very true. I was sharing with her the lessons. I was learning and being able to bring that comfort and perspective to her life and encouraged her in a unique way. So I think it was just so special that the Lord allowed me to see that right away, apply to somebody else, the lessons that I was learning even though I was only like a month after the breakup, it only happened a month before hers but the Lord was faithful to allow me that opportunity, which I’m so thankful. So pray, that prayer that God would use you and use that experience and be humble to learn the lessons that he wants to teach you in it, so that you don’t grow bitter. And Liz, did you want to speak anything else on that topic of bitterness or yeah?

Liz: Definitely good. Because that was definitely something. I struggled to fight in that season. Lord in that time, more than anything. I think taught me about forgiveness and preventing bitterness from going into a root that pollutes many. So, in terms of practically how that worked out. Yeah, it’s hard when memories and thoughts of the ways you’ve been wronged or are continuing to be wronged, flood in. And I found it very helpful to recognize that I was thinking of them, recognized that I was doing either had done, or was doing what I could to be reconciled to either confront the sin in a biblical manner or had, and that door had essentially closed because I’d taken it as far as I could, without any repentance, if you will, in terms of like the Matthew 18 process.

Liz: So, recognizing that I had done what I could or was doing what I could. Briefly praying, I say briefly because it seemed to me, the more I prayed about what I was struggling with bitterness about or anger about, the more, I would just continue to dwell on it instead of actually praying about it and maybe that was my own lack of self-discipline in my prayer at the time. But if you’re struggling like I did, I would pray briefly that the Lord would be gracious to them and show them their sin and not allow them to rest until they were ultimately reconciled to him. And then I would try to not, I would try to fill my mind with other good, Godly things. Other good truth primarily through music. Music was one of the main things that the Lord used to help me think on what was true, pure, just, lovely, of good repute, you know, the Philippians 4:8, things. The lyrics and the involvement of more than just one sense, really helped me focus my mind on where it needed to be. Not on dwelling on the situation in an unproductive way.

Liz: It was an important time to learn about forgiveness and the and the promises of forgiveness. Forgiveness, I think we talked about so often as such a vague, just this thing you do and then you’re supposed to forget, you forgive and forget, and forgiveness, has fundamentally a commitment. It’s a commitment not to bring up the offense to the other person in a way that would hurt them. It’s a commitment to not bring up the offense to other people in an unproductive way. Like I said, it’s one thing if you’re seeking counsel on how to respond biblically, but if you’re just running your mouth because you feel like you need to vent that’s unforgiveness. Forgiveness is a commitment to not bring up the offense to yourself as in dwelling, on it in your own mind. And I think that’s the most difficult one personally. And then the fourth commitment of forgiveness is not allowing the offense to come between your relationship. That one can only really be kept if there’s repentance and and asking for forgiveness where you’re ready and willing to bring that person back, not necessarily to the same state of your relationship as before. But as in not holding that offense against them.

Liz: And learning that those were the commitments that forgiveness, it made it much less ethereal, and intangible. It was, it was things. I could actually do in my thinking, some would say that, you don’t, there’s a difference between transactional forgiveness and positional or, you know, you forgive someone in your heart, but you don’t tell them you’re forgiving them until they’ve repented and asked for your forgiveness. But regardless of where you are in the other person’s responsibility, if you will, you just think of the parable of the Prodigal Son, and the position of the father, when he did repent and return. Luke 15 verse 20 says, “He arose, he arose,” meaning the son, “and came to his father but while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and felt compassion and ran and embraced him and kissed him.” You just think that father didn’t have the opportunity to transactionally like tell his son, he forgave him, but his heart was more than ready to forgive. He was watching and waiting for him. So in forgiveness we should be prepared to do that. Should the other party repent?

Liz: So yeah it is hard. It is hard to forgive when, especially, when there’s not repentance and perhaps, you’re still being sinned against but it is what were called to as followers of Christ and the end of Matthew 18, which is pretty famous chapter in terms of church discipline. But the, the parable at the end of that is about forgiveness and the consequences of someone who won’t forgive. It’s the parable of the unforgiving servant, where the one servant, when the one slave, he owed the master, I think it’s like 120 years worth of wages. It’s incomprehensible like you. It’s a it’s like the most extreme number. It’s supposed to be an exaggeration. Like there’s no way you would ever pay this and the master forgives him. And that servant immediately turns around and starts choking a guy who owes him three months wages and the consequences was that servant was delivered to the jailers until he should pay all his debt. In some versions, it says torturers.

Liz: The last verse is serious. It says, “So also my heavenly father will do to every one of you. If you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” Not to confuse the root and fruit. But if we do not forgive others, scripture is clear, God will not forgive us and it’s not that we earn God’s forgiveness by forgiving others. It’s evidence that we have been forgiven by God when we forgive others. The fear of not being willing to forgive, which is in one sense. Yes, it’s understandable from a human standpoint, but it’s a very serious sin if we don’t forgive. And if we become bitter and angry. So yeah, it’s a good time to examine our own hearts, as to why, we’re having so much trouble forgiving. Is it because we haven’t experienced the forgiveness of God and are we not recognizing how much we have been forgiven in our debt toward him? And yet we are turning around and choking. Someone else, who owes us, pennies in comparison.

Christi: Yeah, and if you want more on forgiveness, we did a whole episode on that a little while ago with Janie Street and so practical. So full of scripture and the reasons why and Liz and we covered some of the points that you brought up as well. So, yeah, that is so good to meditate on its episode 37.

Christi: So we talked about in that first question, you know? When you go through a breakup, you experience this void in your life because you’ve created space for this person in your time and your schedule and your day. And so all of a sudden that’s gone and you just and to maybe distract you from the pain you’re experiencing it’s easy to dive into entertainment. Or you may even be tempted to jump into another, maybe unhealthy relationship just because you’re so lonely in your seeking that companionship and that relationship. So for someone who’s who’s in that place, where this void is very, they feel it very strongly and their life and in their heart, how would you encourage them?

Liz: So, great question. So first, the first place I would encourage you to go is scripture and prayer. Like ultimately part of why we feel that void is. Because we’ve been seeking comfort from someone other than Christ. Not that it’s wrong. Like God made us to be as humans. Relational people. So not all of the filling that void is inherently wrong and sinful but find your comfort in Christ. Find your comfort in his promises in the word. Pour out your heart in prayer, seek the strength of the Holy Spirit to think on what’s true in right and lovely. Seek the companionship of other believers who can help come alongside you in that time. So maybe those are kind of basic, but that’s where we start right? We start with the basics.

Liz: But the next I would say, fulfill your responsibilities, go to work and do your job. Do your job as unto the Lord, fulfill your responsibilities at home. Whether you’re still living at home with family or you have your own place like you have responsibilities as a woman to manage your home, pay your bills. There’s plenty of good things that can and should fill your time on a very practical level. Get good rest. If you can, I understand sleeping can be a challenge when you’re going through a time like that. But set yourself up, like, you can’t separate the dichotomy of our bodies and our spirits, if you will. Take care of your body, get exercise, eat good food, get set. You know, have good habits to be able to provide yourself with the best amount of sleep as possible because that will help you in thinking straight. If you’re sleep-deprived and you’re malnourished, it’s going to be all that much harder to think on what’s true and to respond in a biblical manner.

Liz: Exercise. It is, it’s an opportunity to serve more. You have new time available to you and in any trial, I think one of the best ways to get your eyes off yourself is to put your eyes on how to serve and come alongside others. Start in your church, your local church.

Liz: And then kind of you hit on some of these. But the temptation is to, maybe go to drugs, or alcohol, or social media, or television, or sexual pleasure, or there’s all sorts of things that are, some of them are inherently wrong, and some are not inherently wrong, but it might be wise to take time away from them. I think specifically of social media and the temptations that you’re flooded with there. Whether it’s Facebook or Instagram, being flooded with other people’s engagement announcements or relationship announcements or new babies or there’s, it’s maybe not a good time for you to be bombarded with everybody else’s seeming relationship, success or Pinterest where you’re looking through the, you know, pictures of the beautiful wedding, you were planning or the home. You were going to set up, or Or it may just be a good time to put away, those things that are going to tempt you to feel more the void than to focus on what you have in Christ and the relationships that he’s and responsibilities. He’s put in front of you for that day.

Liz: So that might sound really cold and impractical, but when you can’t think straight, sometimes you just need some, someone to come alongside. You like a drill sergeant, just help you do what you need to. Doing don’t let yourself slip into a dishonor, a God dishonoring despair. Yes, it’s okay to grieve the loss of a relationship, but don’t excuse, your, sinful failure to be faithful and blame it on your emotional pain.

Christi: Yes, I think there are, I mean sin is so deceptive in nature and it’s the seasons of sorrow when you can feel so justified by complaining, anger or like you said, neglecting your responsibilities, because you feel like you have a pass because you’re you’re in pain, you’re hurting. But I just I always think of Elizabeth Elliott’s famous motto, do the next thing. And it helps like, I mean, if you are going in a place of despair and you’re neglecting your home and your appearance and your other relationships that is just going to perpetuate that feeling of despair. It’s you know doing doing the next thing is what is going to help you pull out of that and even though you may feel like you have nothing to offer and to give anyone else it’s amazing.

Christi: When you serve someone else how healing that will be for your own heart and emotions. So I yeah, I would encourage the listeners who are in that place. Find a way to serve somebody else even when you’re hurting and that will help pull you out of that place of maybe despair or loneliness that you are going to be experiencing during that time.

Christi: And I don’t know how true this is. But it did kind of help me to think about the pain. I was in somebody told me for every month that you were in a relationship with this person. It’ll take about a week to recover emotionally. So if you were dating someone for six months, it might be six weeks or longer. That’s who knows how true that is. I don’t think that’s completely true, but at least, it does help give some kind of a timeline. Time does heal. It really does even if at the beginning, you feel like you’ll never be the same, you will get past it, and the Lord will help you through it.

Christi: And I just think of the passages like James 4:8, “Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you” and use that time while. You’re experiencing that void and that pain to draw near to God. It’s the Psalm 73:28 says, “But for me it is good to be near God. I have made the Lord God my refuge that I may tell of all your works.” Zechariah 1:3 says, “Return to me, declares the Lord of hosts that I may return to you.” So there’s so many passages just calling us to come to the Lord to return to him and to find him be our comfort and the source of our joy.

Liz: Sure. Yeah. That’s fantastic. What I was going to just add to what you were saying was in terms of timelines, part of that is going to depend on your discipline to be thinking rightly about the situation. If for example, you’re just propitiating your thoughts of affection towards that person and desire to get back together and you know months later. It’s you’re going to perpetuate the pain in a sense. If you’re constantly going through photos of, when you were dating or letters or pictures, or text messages at some point, it can be very wise to just purge all that, and completely get rid of it, deleted, burn it, recognized that, that was a season that was in your life that the Lord removed. And it’s time to move on.

Liz: I didn’t say this in talking about forgiveness, but God promises not to remember our sin. It doesn’t say anywhere, he’ll forget it and by not remembering, it kind of like the concept of what I was talking about. It’s not bringing it to mind but especially as humans, the more we stop, bringing things to mind, you’ve heard the term, you don’t use it, you lose it. I forget how to do the math, you did in the eighth grade. If you’re, if you stop bringing up all the memories to the forefront of your mind, you will eventually forget a lot of the details of the hurt or the relationship, or the situation. So that takes a lot of mental discipline, but it can hurry up, if you will, the process versus just continuing to wallow in the memories and the reminders that might be available to you.

Christi: Yeah, that’s a really great point Liz. Thanks for bringing that up and this kind of Ugh, weighs. I think well, into our next question, for those who experience a breakup and still have regular contact with that person, maybe they’re in the same church. Maybe they work together or they’re just in the same friend Circle that can be especially difficult. Because even if you’re not trying to bring that person to mind, you’re just seeing them quite often you’re around them. How should somebody navigate that? Would you recommend that they change churches or change jobs or do something drastic like that? Any advice there.

Liz: Yeah that’s a tough one to answer. Broadly. So again go back to your circle of Godly counselors and seek counsel but I’ll try to apply some specific principles. First of all, if there’s abuse or harassment involved, it’s appropriate to get the resources God has provided in civil authorities, and church authorities involved. And that doesn’t mean you necessarily have to be the one leaving the environment, but if yeah, there’s a if there’s abuse, if there’s harassment, it is wise to flee from that. We see that in many places in scripture.

Liz: You look at David or Abigail or Paul, who use the resources that God had made available to them to protect themselves from harm. So if that’s the situation, by all means, avail yourself of the resources God has provided to help you escape that danger and hopefully that means if you’re in a church that church discipline would be applied. Or again if there’s physical danger involved, the police, the local authorities need to be involved. So that’s kind of on one extreme.

Liz: On the other side, if it’s a shall we call it a normal kind of relationship breakup? I think it’s it’s really important to evaluate your motives. Are you fearful of what people think? Are you fearful of being confronted with those memories? Is there unresolved sin? Like is there sin that needs to be resolved between you two. That’s making it extra awkward. By all means deal with unrepentant sin, whether it’s on your part or maybe their part as far as you can biblically speaking. But no, I wouldn’t broadly say yes get out of there so you can avoid those memories. The Lord might be using that opportunity to help you be faithful and to love him more than you love your own comfort in wanting to avoid awkwardness. There’s a really helpful chapter in the book I recommended on that specifically addresses those questions. Believe it’s chapter 16.

Liz: So yes, get rid of the things that you have in your possession that can that might be bringing up those memories. But if you’re avoiding responsibilities for fear of being reminded of the past, like church or fellowship with other Christians or work-related activities, like you need to evaluate where your values really are. I would say I think in thinking about this question, I was thinking about the experience of living in Los Angeles, versus living in Kansas, small-town, Kansas and in Los Angeles there’s a plethora of opportunities, you know, in a large church or in a large city to just say well I’ll just get away from this awkwardness and it’s not necessarily inherently wrong but that’s where, you know, get your counselors involved but it also isn’t necessary here in small-town, Kansas. Our local church is really the only solid one within a 45-minute radius. So choosing to change churches to avoid. Someone is a significant commitment, same with changing jobs. So I would be more conservative. Probably on that and say maybe you just really need to evaluate your heart as to what is it, you’re afraid of is going to happen in being in the same room or memory. But seek counsel.

Christi: Yeah, yeah. No, that’s that’s great. Advice Liz. And I just think if it’s something that is hindering your ministry or your ability to worship, I mean, and, you know, time like we talked about time does help to heal. So if you’re six months to a year past this breakup, but you are still having a hard time worshiping. The Lord or serving in ministry alongside this other person, maybe whatever the context is, maybe it’s wise to flee temptation in a way. Yes you need to do the heart work. Yes. You need to pray and seek the Lord but I also know we all have certain weaknesses to and sometimes if it’s creating a significant barrier to your service to the Lord then maybe finding a way to avoid the temptation is helpful.

Liz: Yeah, absolutely. And that’s where again, if you’re having trouble thinking straight use your godly counselors to help you think through whether that would be a god-honoring and wise thing to do to avoid that temptation or if you know, maybe you need to work through some of the heart issues or both. Yes, work through the heart issues, no matter what but also yeah if you have the opportunity to still serve the Lord and be faithful to your responsibilities. Yeah it’s not inherently wrong.

Christi: Okay, so with our next question, sometimes, after a breakup and especially what, if you’re the one being rejected, this may be more prevalent and some of the thoughts that you’re struggling with but you may struggle with wondering if you’ll ever find someone quite like that again who has those specific qualities or you know character that you appreciate and are looking for or even just little the little things you connected on the little quirky things and I can be a hard place to be of wondering. Will I ever find another person like this again? What truthful thoughts should a lady be thinking and meditating on instead of those kind of less than hopeful thoughts, right?

Liz: That’s a great question. I think the overarching response is remember that if you are in Christ, you have a good father who knows how to give good gifts to his children. Psalm 84:11 says, “For the Lord God is Has a son and his shield, the Lord bestows favor, and honor. No good thing because he withhold from those who walk uprightly.” Or you look at Matthew 7:7 through 11, “Ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find. Knock and it will be open to you. For everyone who asks receives the one who seeks finds and to the one who knocks it will be opened.” And just as our qualifier specifically, that’s asking according to the Lord’s will not just our selfish desires. If we’re trusting with our heart, all our heart, and lean not on your own understanding, in all our ways acknowledging him, he will direct your paths.

Liz: But the other person thinking of is Psalm 37:4, “Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart.” That’s because the desires of our heart will be in line with his desires if we’re delighting in him. So, just a qualification quick on that, the first part of the verse but the rest of Matthew 7:7 through 11 says, “Or which one of you if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children. How much more will your father who is in heaven? Give good things to those who ask him.”

Liz: So in the context of will I never find someone who had those qualities, or who was this or that? It’s not true. Like, if God did not permit, you to go forward with that relationship, He has better things for you. You may not recognize them as better, especially in the moment even if it’s singleness. Like a life of singleness in joyful service to the Lord is better than marriage to the wrong person. And I think that’s that’s something that the Lord really taught me in that breakup was I had the choice at that moment to choose between a short time of pain of dealing with the breakup or a lifetime of pain and being married to someone that would have in all the wisdom that was provided. At the time, it would have been extremely difficult and painful and not just for me for any children. We might have had and I think the Lord used that to just show me that especially as a woman. We have the opportunity, especially in our culture to choose who we will submit Our Lives to. Women wives, are called to submit themselves to their husbands. And we have the opportunity to choose who we will give the stewardship of that submission to and we need to do that wisely. That’s a stewardship. That’s essentially the stewardship of your life that you’re going to be interesting to a man. And I was very sobered to think that I was not only choosing a husband, but I was potentially choosing a father for my children and that weight on me even more to think. If I make a bad decision. And I have to live with it. That’s one thing, but if I choose someone who wouldn’t be a Godly father and a Godly example to them, how awful would that be to watch?

Liz: And not that every breakup involves that kind of weight, if you will? But just know, God is a good father. He gives good gifts to his children. And whether that good gift is another period of singleness, or a spouse in the future, whatever it is, it is better than what you are. Imagining is good for you, right then. So trust in him, trust in his sovereignty and his wisdom and knowledge and insight that we don’t have and just rest in that. Rest in the reality, he’s a good father who gives good gifts.

Christi: Yes, and sometimes I have a friend who will say, sometimes you have to just white-knuckle cling to those promises because it’s so counter to what your heart is feeling, and you’ve just got to trust the God knows that. And one thing this is so simple, but one thing that helped me was just realizing that God made that person and he can make someone else with some of those same qualities that I appreciated. So, so that it’s not that you’ll never find someone who had some specific quality.

Christi: But also another example that I thought was encouraging is Elizabeth Elliott and the fact that she had three different husbands through the course of her life because of, you know, the Lord took some of them home and so she could have been tempted to compare each of those men to each other. And they were all as she explains. So different. She said, one verse that really helped her in thinking this through is First Corinthians 12:4: “Now, there are varieties of gifts but the same Spirit, there are varieties of ministry and the same lord. And there are a variety of effects. But the same God Who works all things and all persons.” It’s the same Lord who’s working in, if they’re a Believer. And so, yes, they’ll be unique and different but yeah, don’t compare people to each other, but just know that God is doing that same work in each of our lives. And so that should be encouraging at least.

Christi: All right, so, for our last question today, how would you encourage someone who was never given a clear reason for the break-up? Maybe, you know, they’re the one being rejected and so, they’re left living with that uncertainty for any encouragement that you can share with them today.

Liz: Yeah, I think certainty in life is an illusion for some foremost. We think we know things or we think we know what’s going to happen and we don’t. We’ve already alluded to that in this conversation. I think we look at Proverbs 16:9, “In his heart, a man plans his way, but the Lord directs, his steps,” or the rich fool in Luke 12, who is all cozy after a good harvest thinking that he’s got a couple of years. So he can just take it easy and that, that night, his life is taken from him. So, uncertainty reminds us that were finite and God is infinite and sovereign and working all these things. So I think ultimately reminding ourselves of that truth is a really helpful place to start.

Liz: But I’d say with the uncertainty that the temptation would be to fill in the blanks with why, like why was I broken up with? The thing you have to be careful. There is it’s not your imagination is not necessarily consistent with reality. It may be much worse, you know, like you imagine much worse things that the other person concluded about you then they really did. You may imagine things that are not true. So just remember, you know, Philippians 4:8, we’re to think of the things that are true that are consistent with reality.

Liz: So it could be wise to think through the potential reasons, someone might have broken up. Again, seek your seek your godly counsel. You seek godly counsel from your your small circle on whether you should maybe pursue a reason, you know, if you have that opportunity to just have a conversation and ask like is there any areas of my life that you see I could be working on you know to make me more christ-like if the if that kind of opportunity was there to talk with your ex that could be an option but assuming that’s not, just be very careful not to imagine the worst of them or yourself.

Liz: It would it could be an opportunity if you can’t ask your ex, maybe ask your godly counselors. Like, do you see things in my life that I should work on? To make me more christ-like things that might have been contributing factors to the failure of this relationship and be prepared and willing to listen to what they have to say. Because it might be hard to hear. But what a great time to see how we can grow into be more christ-like.

Liz: Another couple things again, referring back to Picking up the Pieces. He does a really fantastic job of describing how we perceive ourselves, you know, in our day and age. There’s a lot of talk about self-image and really self-image is just ours. It’s a poor self-image is biblically speaking. It’s just in for your inferiority judgments that we’ve made about ourselves. They put some in three basic categories, inaccurate perceptions, accurate, but not sinful and accurate and sinful. So depending on what category the perception of yourself that you’ve, you know, for whatever reason you’ve come up with that, you think this is why they broke up with you, it would probably fit in one of those three categories.

Liz: So, let’s say in your self-assessment, you’ve decided you’re just not attractive enough. I’m going to maybe be overly broad here, but assuming you’re not sinning in some way by failing to your body is just your assessment that your face is ugly. Your hair is frizzy, your hips are too wide, and that’s why your ex broke up with you. Well, that’s an inaccurate perception, and you need to change your perception into one. That’s biblical. God made you the way he did for his purposes, he’s the one who gets to decide what the standard of beauty is. And in many places in scripture, he makes it clear that he’s much more concerned with our hearts that he is with our outward appearance. First Peter 3:3 through 4 is one of the most familiar passages, in particular dressing women: “Do not let your adorning be merely external. The braiding of hair, the putting on of jewelry or the clothing you wear, but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable, beauty of a gentle and quiet Spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious.” Though. Yeah, let’s say that’s, that’s your perception of the situation. Think biblically about the way your appearance is.

Liz: It could be that your assessment is accurate, but not sinful. So maybe you think your ex broke up with you because you’re too tall or too short or didn’t hold a certain type of profession. Well, scripture doesn’t say we’re required to be any something one of those things then we need to change our value. Like if our values meaning, like, let’s say I can see in some cultures especially someone breaking up over someone not holding a certain type of profession and we need to make sure that we’re not fear fear of man or well I should have, you know, been a doctor or a lawyer or made, you know, six figures or scripture, doesn’t command us anywhere to be those things. So we may need to change our values.

Liz: And then the last would be accurate and sinful. So maybe maybe we have a tendency to be bitter or angry, or speak unkindly and that character flaw, you know, influenced the other person to break up with us and that’s something we should change. We should repent and put on godly character. I hope that’s helpful as in think on what’s true, don’t let your imagination run away with you with things you don’t know are consistent with reality and where you do maybe maybe do have a hint, if you will, as to why, just know which category it fits into as to whether or not you need to change your perception, your values or your behavior, and do. So, in a way that to honor the Lord primarily not just to get another person.

Christi: Yeah, so helpful is, I’m, I really appreciate how you broke that down. And at the end of the day to you, rest in God’s sovereignty and in his Providence, that the Lord has changed the course of events of your life. And has a different plan for you and so you rest in that and like we talked about earlier, how God knows how to give good gifts and I’m going to butcher the verse but how I think we quoted it earlier Liz about man orders his ways but the Lord directs his steps so we can have all kinds of plans. And yet God is ultimately the one who will bring those plans to fruition or change the course of our life and change our plans. So we trust him, we rest in him.

Christi: So one verse that really helped me when I was walking through a breakup is Romans 12:12: “Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction and faithful in prayer.” And it’s hard to be hopeful when you’re hurting, but we’re commanded to to be hopeful to think of the best. And, and to expect the best of the Lord and his plans for us. To be patient in affliction, it’s going to take time. It’s going to take time to heal and to work through those things, but you’ll get through that. The Lord will walk with you through that Valley and be faithful in prayer, praying for the Lord to use this in your life, to grow you. But also be prayer for prayerful for other people. Take the focus off of yourself. Every opportunity you get when you’re talking to people, don’t always be talking about your breakup and the heartache you’re going through, be asking them about their lives, asking how you can pray for. Or them and spend much time invested and focusing on other’s needs and praying for them. And I think that will help all of that will help in the healing process as you walk forward and you trust the Lord with the next step for your life.

Liz: Yeah, absolutely. And then just in closing, I just wanted to add to in the aftermath of a breakup. It’s it can be easy to feel like you’re damaged goods, especially maybe those of us who grew up somewhat in the Kiss Dating Goodbye culture where we were taught to guard our hearts, not in the sense of guard, your heart biblically, because from it flow, the issues of life. But guard your hearts from other people because and you won’t get hurt, and if you do get hurt in a relationship, then you clearly did something wrong and you gave too much of yourself away and now there’s less of you for whoever God may have next, that’s not true.

Liz: You look at Romans 8 like God is working all things. Things together for good to those who love him to those who are the called, according to his purpose. He is using this breakup, the relationship in the breakup to make you more into the image of his son. And that is a priceless treasure. If you are more like Christ because of the relationship and the breakup, you are more beautiful. You bring more to a new season of singleness or potential future relationship. So, don’t allow yourself to believe the lie that you’re damaged in some way and then no one would want you. Because you, you know, you gave some of your heart to someone else. And if you gave more of your person, physically then repent of that seek God’s forgiveness, seek the forgiveness of your ex if appropriate and know that you are forgiven in Christ.

Liz: One of my favorite C.S. Lewis quotes of all time kind of reminds us again back there. But we talked about the fall and how this world is not the way, it should be, but the quote is “There is no safe investment. To love anything, your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully around with hobbies and little luxuries. Avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside of heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is hell.”

Liz: And I quote, just reminds me of like we are called to love one another, to love one another from a sincere heart for the glory of Christ. Yes, breakups hurt, they hurt bad. It’s not the way things are supposed to be, but the alternative to having our hearts broken is being completely consumed with ourselves and protecting ourselves and being selfish and not pursuing and serving others, the way God has called us to. So remember what you’ve been given in Christ, put your confidence in, seek your fulfillment, in your relationship with him and pursue relationships with others for their good. And for Christ’s glory.

Liz: Just one other thought, is there can be fear of another relationship, fear of the same thing happening. I know I definitely struggled with that in my relationship with Josh, fearing what people would think of me dating him. Be engaged to him? It’s something that’s helpful to think about. First John 4:18 says, “There’s no fear in love, but perfect love. Casts out, fear for fear has to do with punishment and whoever fears has not been perfected in love. We love because he first loved us.” When we’re afraid of something, we’re afraid we’re more concerned with what we might lose than with what we might give. We love others because God first loved us. So yeah, going forward, I had to deal with the fear of losing my reputation yet again, if the relationship failed or losing time or losing whatever, but just remembering that we love in a biblical sense because we’ve been love first by God.

Christi: Amazing Liz. I have nothing else to add. What a beautiful note to end on. Thank you so much for sharing tonight and just yeah sharing what God taught you and the comfort that he gave you through those difficult times and now being able to share it with me and with the listeners. And I just pray that God uses to comfort many and to spur them on to love and good deeds.

Liz: Absolutely. Would you mind if I prayed for your listeners?

Christi: I would love that.

Liz: Lord, I’ve come before you. So thankful for how you’ve worked in my life and the life of my husband, Josh and Christi and so many through the pain of a broken relationship, to make us more like your son, to teach us how to comfort others with the same comfort that you comforted us in those situations, to drive us to your word, to make us more like Christ, to realize our satisfaction ultimately can only come in you and that will ultimately only be truly and fully satisfied in in an eternity with you. Lord, I pray that you would just comfort those who are maybe in the midst of dealing with a breakup or the remembrance of one. They would help them renew their minds to think on, what’s true, what’s true about you? What’s true about your plans for them that you would help them recognize that their emotions can help them see what’s going on in their hearts. What they value and that they would work to bring those values in line with what you value, with what your word says we should value. I pray that you would help them to heal that you would help them to not selfishly protect and guard their hearts from other people. But that they would freely love and freely give to others because of the love that you’ve poured out in their hearts. And Lord. If there are listeners, who do not know you, who have not experienced your forgiveness, who do not know and have not experienced your love, that you would use perhaps this podcast that you would use the difficult situation that they’re going through to soften their hearts, to see their sin, to see their need to be reconciled to you. They would bring them to repentance and Faith. But I ask all these things in Jesus name. Amen.

Christi: Amen.