Donna Barlow is a midwife and a mother of 5, and she helps bring clarity to the topic of fertility and children by answering the following questions: Should a single woman go to an OBGYN and have her fertility checked? Or should she wait until she is engaged to look into that area of her health? What are common myths about fertility? If someone has a condition that may impact fertility, how early should they disclose that in a dating relationship? What practical steps can a single woman do to help her fertility and hormones? What would you tell a woman who doesn’t have a strong desire to have children? Should couples seek to have children right away after marriage? For a woman who is thinking about freezing her eggs, what should she consider before a decision like that? And what comfort can you offer to women who are beyond child-bearing years?
Welcome to the Smiling at the Future podcast. My name is Christi Rose and this is my pursuit to glean practical wisdom on femininity, homemaking, finances, relationships, and singleness from the God fearing men and women in my life. Hope you enjoy this journey with me as we learn to smile at the future.
Hi ladies, In today’s episode, I have the pleasure of sitting down with one of my longtime friends, Donna Barlow, who also happens to be a midwife and a mom of five children, to chat about fertility and children. And my prayer is that the wisdom and comfort she shares will put any fears to rest that you may have surrounding this part of your life and also tune your perspective to be more in line with God’s priorities and His sovereignty. So here is my conversation with Donna Barlow.
Donna, it is a treat for me to have you come on the podcast today. And I’ve had your younger sister and her husband on Jane and John Tucker. They’ve done a few different episodes and I love and respect your whole family. I think our families have known each other for close to 40 years at this point. But you bring an area of expertise to the conversation today that few have, and that is because you are a trained midwife and a strong Christian. So a perfect blending for the questions we’ll be covering today on fertility and children. But before we jump in, would you introduce yourself to the listeners?
Yes, thank you, Christi, for having me on and giving me this opportunity to share. My name is Donna Barlow. I am, as Christi said, a family friend of the Roses going way back to before she was even born. So it’s been a joy to know the Rose family. I am a mom. I have five children, ages 20 down to 11. I have been homeschooling them for the past many years. My husband Scott is a he works in academics right now. He’s a school principal. We live in the Central Valley. And yes, I’m a midwife, A licensed midwife, which is through the Medical Board of California. And I have had the honor and the joy of working with families who are pregnant and having babies for over 20 years and something years. And that has been such a privilege and a special part of my life. So, yeah, I’m still homeschooling some of my children. And where we are now, I get to enjoy a little bit more gardening. And I have a flower garden. We have chicken. So actually, I was going to mention we do live in the orchard area here. So you’ll you might hear chickens and dogs and other noises. Sorry, Val Apologize ahead of time anyway. Yeah. So thank you, Christi.
Yeah. So it’s it’s a joy and that’s fun that you’re you’re definitely full of life right now with your kids and you’re sitting there. But the topic today that I don’t think I’ve ever heard discussed from the perspective of singleness. Typically fertility is addressed on the shows for wives and moms. And I don’t think many singles are tuning into those types of programs. But I’m sure we all have questions and maybe even fears and insecurities surrounding this area of our health and our lives. So we’re going to just bring this topic into the light, Lord willing, bring hope and encouragement to those listening in today. And I’ll just also give this disclaimer. We will be tactful and how we speak about this. So it’s not our rated content today. Don’t worry. We’re going to be very kosher.
So I’m just going to dive right in here with our first question. Should a single woman go to an OBGYN doctor and have her fertility checked, or should she wait until she is seriously dating or engaged to look into that area of her health?
Yeah. So that’s a great question. And my thoughts on that would be that she does not necessarily need to go and have her fertility checked, assuming that she’s, you know, taking care of herself and she doesn’t have any specific medical questions, There wouldn’t be a need to specifically look into her fertility really at any point in her life unless she ends up, you know, with, with a situation later when she’s married. However, if she does have concerns or questions, you know, with within her own, you know, how her body’s working or what’s going on with her in particular, of course she could, she could look into that. But as a general question, I don’t think she should need feel the need to go and get her fertility checked.
OK. And that’s that’s good to know because I’ve often thought about that. How early do I need to start thinking about this if I want to be married and have children? So maybe just crossing that bridge if there are concerns or symptoms that would precipitate that kind of help?
Right. If you’re, if you’re having a normal cycle and things like that, there would be no, I would, I wouldn’t see any concern that you would need to do that. Of course, if things change there along the way, you know you could you could at that point, but I wouldn’t see the need in general. One other thought I had was maybe just doing your research and finding a good doctor and having that lined up just in case those needs ever arise, Especially if like you are engaged and you’re planning a wedding and the busyness of life during that time. And then maybe you, you do need to go get checked and want to make sure that you’re doing OK in that area. It might be kind of overwhelming to do all that research and try to find a good doctor. So maybe that’s just something you could do your research on, find someone that you’d trust and would feel comfortable going to.
That’s a good idea, yes and a good way to find a doctor and do research is to ask your friends who they like your friends that maybe already have a Doctor Who are moms and ask them who who they would go to. And of course, when you’re married, sometimes you’re moving, but you know, in the area where you’re going to be. Word of mouth is great. Also, to find a Doctor Who lines up with your thinking about how to approach things like fertility, whether it’s more from the medical point of view or the holistic point of view, or just how they’re going to treat things based on how you line up with those thoughts.
So are there misconceptions about fertility? And I guess what are those that are not entirely accurate, but maybe we’ve heard a sound bite or something and then that fear has just lodged in our mind. So can you kind of bring some of those to light?
Well, I think that a common thought would be that the older you get, the harder it will be to get pregnant. But as we’re going to talk about, that is not necessarily true. If you take good care of yourself, you can have fertility well into your 40s. So obviously there is a time that that that comes to an end for everyone. But in general, the older you are, you still have a good chance of burying children past your 30s. So that that’s a there, there’s a common thought going back to when our moms were young and having babies was the 35 was the cut off for when you should and shouldn’t have children. Once you’re 35, you become high risk after that and you shouldn’t have children. Well, that kind of stems from the practice of doing amniocentesis, which is a procedure where they would stick a needle into a pregnant belly and take some fluid out and test if the baby had Down syndrome. And the risk of the baby having Down syndrome was the same as the mom having a miscarriage from the procedure at age 35. And so that’s why they had that cut off. So amniocentesis are not done anymore, generally speaking. And so that #35 just needs to go bye, bye. Plenty of women have healthy babies past 35. So that’s it.
Yeah. So another thought is that the older you are, the the higher the risk of having a baby with abnormalities. But we know that that doesn’t necessarily hold true either. Plenty of women I’ve watched for many years, you know, they may have their first child has an abnormality and they go on to have many children after who do not. So that is also not something to stress or worry about. That’s all up to the Lord. And if He’s blessing you with a child at any age, it could be perfectly healthy. It could be and maybe have some issues, but that would be up to the sovereignty of God. And so that’s also not something to worry about. In my practice as a midwife, I’ve had many moms have babies into their 40s perfectly healthy, wonderful.
And it’s good to know those those examples. I know in my own family, like my mother had 4 babies in 5 1/2 years and was pregnant up until she was 44. And my own sister had her two kids at 40 and 42. I want to say so. And they’re perfectly healthy and fine. And so I think we all know people where the Lord has blessed that. So just understanding God’s sovereignty in that is so encouraging.
Yes, and it’s the kind of a mindset, right, the worldly mindset versus one that acknowledges the sovereignty of God and that he can bless us with children at different ages. And obviously each situation is individual, but we don’t need to have a number as a cut off for them. So another thought is that infertility is mainly or only something that women deal with. And that used to be, I think, the main thought decades and decades ago, but it’s becoming more mainstream to realize and to know that that can be a male problem as well. So that just emphasizes the the fact that women, not all the blame is on women for infertility and that men need to be aware of how to be healthy themselves. And there’s certain things that they can do to be healthy, but infertility can be women or men. So that’s a thought.
One thing I’ve thought about is just how quickly a relationship can progress and and go towards marriage. And so if I desire to have children, I want to set myself up for success. And So what can I be doing now in my single years? What habits that will just help my hormones help my fertility? Are there any tips that you can give us?
Yes, there are definitely things that single women can be mindful of and implement into their life. The first obvious ones would be diet and exercise. And as far as diet goes, we live in an age where so much of our food is altered or tampered with and is not very nutritious by the time we get it if we’re not careful to look for things. So as many foods as you can eat that looks the most like they when they were grown, the better. So Whole Foods and the balanced diet, you know, healthy fats and lots of protein are very important actually for for keeping your fertility and they also help you maintain a healthy weight. A lot of women struggle with polycystic ovarian syndrome or PCOS and that can help be managed by good diet that’s heavy on protein and fats and not as much on the carbs. So diet is good to be mindful of.
Another thing about food is that so much of our food, as I said, has been modified and you’ve probably seen or heard of the term GMO, genetically modified organisms, which a lot of the crops now are grown with. So that would be something to avoid. And they usually put that on labels now GMO free. But another thing that I have gone by for years that I recommend is sometimes it’s overwhelming to think buying everything organic. Maybe that’s not feasible with your finances. But there’s a list that’s put out every year called The Dirty Dozen and that gives you the top 12 foods that have the most pesticides and chemicals put on them. And if you can try to buy those 12 items organic, you’ll be doing a lot for your health. And the reason that a lot of these pesticides and chemicals want to be avoided is because they are endocrine disruptors and that’s very connected to fertility. So The Dirty Dozen list is a great resource for trying to buy at least some of your food organic if you can’t afford to buy all of it organic.
So diet, trying to maintain a healthy weight and exercise, they all go hand in hand. But exercise is also really important for your mental emotional health as well. Exercise is so important. You want to keep your stress level down as much as you can for health utility. And so exercise really contributes that to that as well. And I’ve been hearing more often that you shouldn’t do extreme exercise, that it’s actually healthier to do more moderate walking, maybe weight lifting. But women that are running a lot or doing high intensity workouts can actually be hurting their hormones. I don’t know your thoughts on that but.
Yes, if you are really extreme into fitness and working out, it can affect your fertility and your cycle and your weight. You need to have a healthy balance of fat on your body and muscle in order to get pregnant. There’s a, there’s a balance there for for fertility and if you’re too slim, as we know, you know, having too much weight can affect it. But even if you’re too slim, that can also affect it. So just trying to be mindful of balance and variety and just wisdom with all the different aspects of our life as far as that goes. So yes, that’s a good point.
And I think that’s like the balance there, because it can be so easy to swing to extremes in this area. And we’re called to be good stewards before the Lord. So. And you know, if this is taking over your mind and your finances time, like just try to find how you can make wise choices, but but do it in a way that honors the Lord. I know for myself, just even from the the chemical side of things, I would think I went through like one year every month. I decided, OK, this month I’m going to try to find a healthier option for laundry detergents. And so I didn’t, a little bit of research, found something I liked and I’m just stuck with that. And I’m like, check that off the list. It’s off the mind. And then I’m like, OK, the next month I’m going to look at dishwasher detergents and the next month it’ll be shampoo. And so I kind of spread it out. And then once it was taken care of, I kind of moved on. I didn’t obsess over it. So I think once you put a little bit of research in time, then move on with your life. You don’t have to constantly be researching everything all the time, but just finding what works for you that’s financially wise. A lot of those healthier items can be a little bit more expensive, so finding what’s more affordable and just fewer chemicals. And ultimately, as we already acknowledged the sovereignty of God over all of this, even if we’re not making perfect decisions, He’s still sovereign over our health and He still has good works that He’s going to strengthen us to do. And we are called to be. Why isn’t a steward? Well, but we don’t do that perfectly. And He’s sovereign over it. So we can rest in that at the end of the day. And it’s not something we can completely control as much as we would like to.
Yes for sure. Amen to that. His grace is sufficient and covers, You know, there are so many areas that we don’t achieve perfection, but being one thing would be to be mindful of, like you said, you went through and looked at your laundry detergent and your dishwasher detergent and different things like that. But as you go through life, learning to look at labels and to be aware of certain things to avoid, as you, you know, buy things is also really important. So and because so many things now in our products are endocrine disruptors, which will affect your fertility. So cleaning products like you mentioned and cosmetics, soaps, you know, anything you’re putting on your body, the little plug in things that people plug in that are scents like Scentsy, I don’t know the different, you know, they, they put off a scent when you plug them in. Those have some of the worst endocrine disruptors in them. So just being aware of things that we bring into our home and put in and on our body as as natural as we can be, as you know, using wisdom in the choices that we make definitely helps. Yeah. So cleaning products, so many things you can learn like oh, vinegar is actually a very good cleaning product. I don’t need all the other chemicals in there. So just things like that. So, but using a balance as God gives you the resources and the time to do this.
Yes, I I’ve never been able to jump on the vinegar bandwagon because the smell is so strong. Yes. That’s. Hard. So what I’ve done sometimes is to dilute it with water and then I add essential oils which adds another scent. Lavender or peppermint, Different. There’s different ones you can add, but you know are a lot of natural cleaning things on the market. It’s just this awareness that actually has been growing lately, which is nice to see of all the things that are in all the things we put on and in our body and how to be aware of what’s helpful and what’s harmful so.
Yeah, no, good points. Now my next question is a little more of a heart issue question. So I’m just curious what you would tell the woman who doesn’t have a strong desire to have children, or maybe she even feels neutral on that. Is this something that a single woman should try and muster up? Is this a desire that can grow once you’re married? And then how can she talk about those feelings honestly with a man that she’s dating?
Yeah, great question. There are definitely women who don’t have a natural strong desire to have children, and that’s OK. You know, the most important thing is if her life is based on truth and on, you know, God’s word and to realize that desires can change. So perhaps it’s a blessing while she’s single to not be strongly desiring children. Maybe it allows her to be better focused as a single person on what God has for her at this time. So I would say not to worry about that as long as your barometer is the truth in the Word of God. Desires can change. We definitely be praying about it. You know, if you have a desire to be married one day and you know that children often come with marriage and that marriage, one of the purposes of marriage is to have children, you know, be in prayer about that, but ultimately to go on truth and not feelings. I would say that while she’s single, she doesn’t need to work hard at growing a desire for children, but to grow her trust in God’s sovereignty. Because if we can rely on Him being sovereign, we know that if He leads to marriage and if He blesses with children, then it will be a blessing that will grow on you. I’ve seen many women who didn’t strongly want children. And once they have children, they never look back. You know, God brings that love for your children that you never knew you had. So you know that children, you know, Psalm 127, children are a blessing. We can trust the word for that. And we know that if he gives children, they will be a blessing. And we know what blessings are.
So how can she talk honestly about this with the man she’s dating? You know, honesty is the best policy. And if you bring it up with a with a man you’re dating, you can pray together about it and walk that road together. And that might even help give the desire, if you hear his heart for children, you know, just to sort of join your hearts in that matter before the Lord together. But ultimately just to trust the Lord that if he wants you to have children and you’re open to it obediently, that he will bless you with that. And it won’t be a burden, it will be a blessing.
That is so helpful to hear. And I know that I know a lot of women actually who wouldn’t describe themselves as baby people. You know, they’re not looking at every baby around and saying I need to hold that baby. But when the Lord gives them children, they’re excellent mothers. They love their children. And I’ve heard mom say, I don’t love everyone’s children. I love my children. I love how you brought out that desires can change and God can grow that in the appropriate way. And if you don’t have a way to fully express that desire within a marriage and a home, then it can be, you know, that I think can grow in the appropriate in that context. So just knowing that God can change it and grow it. But I think I’ve, you know, when I’ve talked about this with different men, I think the posture of my heart has been submission to the Lord’s will, or that least that’s what I want them to hear is whatever the Lord has in this area. I’m open to it. And I wouldn’t describe myself as someone who has been dreaming of having children my whole life. I’ve, you know, I want to, if the Lord has that, I know he’ll bring the needed strength and the needed love and desire for that. But I just hold that open before the Lord and just say, OK, Lord, whatever you have planned, I want to be submissive to your will in this. But I think it’s also important if you have any worldly influence about children to, to root that out of your heart. I think we’re so influenced by our culture without even realizing it. So maybe doing a study on children, how God speaks of children in his word. I think that could even change your desires. And then also what would be you can even look further, you know, heart issues. Is it fear? Are you afraid of having children? It’s a huge task. Some women look at that as like an insurmountable thing that they could never take on, whether physically if they have health problems or just the time or the sleepless nights. And you can look at that and be afraid. You could also, you know, see if you have selfishness, that you just want your life to be a certain way. You want to have time to just go out with your friends and go on vacations and you don’t want to be Hanford by children. I would say those are, that’s how the world thinks of children. They think of them as a hindrance rather than a blessing. So it’s good to keep your mind in line with what God says of children. Have those true those truths in your heart. So that would just be a good study for anyone to do. Like what is causing that lack of desire? Is it worldly influence?
Yeah, the world definitely views children even nowadays as a commodity. You know, we, we buy children, we plan them, we choose exactly when we’re going to have them. And now with, with the reproductive technology, just like we’re the Wild West of reproductive technology more and more. I’m not saying Christians do this, but in the world, you know, oh, we’re going to have one blue eyed boy and this year and one brown eyed girl, you know, they just like looking at in a catalog. So we’re moving further away from children being a blessing from the Lord to being trophies that we want to raise as that. But back to your thought about maybe the fears that that some women have with having children, Those are valid. Motherhood is a huge undertaking. But to realize that you don’t have the grace for those days right now. You will have the grace when those days come one day at a time, you know, to think of, oh, I could never have five children or 10 children or how does she do that? You know? But the way she does it is one day at a time by the Lord’s grace. And that’s how we all do it. So when the time comes, He does enable us for what He’s called us too. And I remember one of my clients, she had 13 children and she never had changed a diaper. I don’t know if she’d even held a baby before she got married. She was an athlete and she just raised those 13 children. You would have never known, you know, that she was that way before she got married. So, you know, we just have to leave room for the Lord to change us and mold us and do what he wants with us. And yeah.
Yeah, and you know, I was listening to some talks that John Piper did on this topic as well. And he was just saying, you know, if if the if you don’t have a desire for children and that’s just due to your, your comfort, loving you, you’re afraid of doing something hard. He just said it’s just so short sighted and so many women, and these are more maybe unbelievers, career women are waking up later in life and realizing that the things they were chasing and pursuing in their comforts and their careers are not as fulfilling as they thought they would be. And they wished that they had prioritized children. So and, and I know that the listeners of this podcast probably wouldn’t fit into that category. If we’re still single later in life, it’s not from lack of desire. It’s just the Lord’s Providence in that. And so we submit to that as well.
But we were talking about, you know, how do you speak honestly with a man that you’re dating on this topic? And that segues and another question I have, if you have a condition that may impact fertility, such as endometriosis, how early should they, should someone disclose that in a dating relationship? I don’t, I don’t think it’s something you put on a dating profile that’s more private. That’s something that maybe once the relationship has some strength to it that you could disclose that level of personal information. But I would just love to hear your thoughts on that.
Yes. Well, I don’t think there’s one rule for this. I think there’s definitely varied times when that should be disclosed or talked about depending on your situation. But overall I would say that earlier is probably better considering that marriage would be or dating sorry would be marriage minded. And I seem to see the trend that the older girls are the less they date for just having fun. And maybe just there are more about the business of seeing if God would have this to be a marriage partner and for guys as well, you know, so it’s it’s more focused, it’s more serious. So I would say in general, early on is good to discuss this, especially if you know or sense that the man is desirous of children and would maybe want to, you know, be part of the discussion in in that you know, how to how to navigate that. There’s plenty of conditions who can be with that can be managed and controlled and pregnancy as possible. But but there are obviously times when perhaps pregnancy wouldn’t be possible. I once knew a girl who when she was a teenager accidentally, they did a hysterectomy on her that was not necessary. So she was never going to be able to have children, but she did end up getting married. So God has different plans for those women as well. And yeah, so I would say just openness and and honesty is the best policy most of the time. Obviously there’s wisdom in each specific situation, but if you’re thinking that it’s likely no or this this could be a match, I would put it on the table as I would want him to put things on the table with me as well. Yeah. It’s not something you would disclose an engagement. This is something that should happen well before then. There shouldn’t be those kinds of surprises later in life. But you know, again, God’s sovereignty. We all know couples that thought they were perfectly healthy and yet struggled with fertility. And the predominant theme and Scripture around children is that it’s the Lord who opens and closes the womb. So we trust him that he can make that possible if that’s his will.
I would just say when, when you have that conversation with the man about if you have a condition like that, what’s probably going to be more encouraging for the man is how you view that trial. Speak about it from the perspective of acknowledging God’s sovereign hand in it, that this is one of the things that God is using to sanctify you. And I think if he hears that heart posture from you of just talking about your trials in that way, that’s going to be impactful to him of how you interact with those things, not as just something you’re bitter over, but something you’re trusting God with and that he’s using in your life. So just make sure when you have that conversation that that is the way that you talk about it and, and address it. And Lord willing, the man would be willing to shoulder that burden with you if he truly loves you. And I know plenty of women who’ve gotten married with serious health conditions and their husbands wanted to shoulder that weight with them, and it wasn’t something they were afraid of. So there are those men out there. So don’t think that just because you may not be a perfectly healthy person, healthy specimen, that that somehow makes you unmarriable. If God has marriage for you, nothing’s going to thwart that. And he’s going to bring the right man into your life who will embrace that and help you through it.
Amen. And just, you know, if you have a situation before marriage that you know about it, like we mentioned, doesn’t preclude pregnancy. God can do the impossible. He can work miracles. And as you alluded to, you could be perfectly healthy as far as you know and then struggle with fertility. So all of those things are just to to walk through with the Lord’s help and with that’s married and she’s the oldest of like 15 children or something. And she has been married now for probably 12-15 years and no babies. All her sisters are having lots of babies and she and her husband are not able. So they’ve had to walk through that journey. They were so hoping for children, but it just hasn’t happened for them yet. And so she’s really worked through that and found freedom and just trusting in the Lord’s will and it allows you to be an amazing auntie. Yeah, just every stage, you know, we have to realize that we aren’t in control and the Lord will have his. Welcome.
Yes, so one trend right now with couples and this has been going on I think for a while is that after they get married, they want to wait like three to five years before having kids. And this probably is more predominant with younger married couples. I think the older you get, the you realize you don’t have as much time, so you get on that as quickly as you can. But what what advice would you give a couple in that area of family planning? Would you encourage them to have children as soon as they’re married? It just, yeah. Curious your thoughts.
Well, as we just mentioned, fertility is not guaranteed. So if you think you want to wait five years to have a baby, you don’t know what’s going to happen in five years with your fertility. And I’ve seen couples who think they’re in control and they have a plan and they’re going to wait and they’re going to do whatever it is, saving up a lot of money to own their first home or go on vacations and do some of those things first. And then they have fertility problems. Well, maybe they shouldn’t have waited. So I would ask, what are you waiting for? What accomplishments are you waiting for or certain things in your life? You know, why are you waiting?
There is wisdom in having some finances for having a child, but hopefully those would be in place, especially for people older. Getting married would be in place before you get married. Seek the Lord together about this because there are situations when it’s wise to not have a child, to wait, but those would be the outliers. Those would be more extreme. I know a girl who just got married. I think she’s 20 years old and her husband is 19 and she has cancer. She’s going through like thyroid cancer. She’s like in the middle of treatment, so there would be some wisdom in maybe waiting to have a baby for them, but that’s an extreme case. In general, if you understand that one of the main purposes for marriage is to be fruitful and multiply, I would suggest that you have a really good reason for waiting if you plan to wait because that is how the Lord will bless you is with children. You know, there’s the same here that he pays for what he orders, he’ll provide if you, if he orders a child for you, he will provide the needful housing and finances and things.
So it’s, you know, a temporal versus an eternal perspective and where you’re where are you laying up your treasure and what are you putting your resources into? Is it building, you know, up a home on earth and all the toys, or is it souls that can be eternal, that are eternal and, and impact the Kingdom of the Lord? So yeah, I would recommend in general to be open to the Lord blessing you with children right away, especially if you’re older. Getting married. I didn’t have my first baby till I was 33. And I as I, as I got older and wasn’t married, I started wondering, am I ever going to have children? And then starting at 33, you know, because I had come from my mom’s and, you know, her generation, you got married at 22 and you were done having babies by the time you were 30, generally speaking. And here I wasn’t even married until I was 32. So I had to trust the Lord with that. And then when I did get married, we wanted to my husband’s five years older. We wanted to be open to the Lord blessing us with children. And thankfully he did. So I’m glad that we didn’t wait five years.
Yes, and you know, you brought out some of the the reasons why people would delay, such as saving up money, finishing a degree and and those things which seem very responsible. But again, that’s that can be a hindrance to fertility. And I think across the board, the one metric that they can tie together why developing modern countries are they’re all, they all have declining birth rates and they can they point to that factor that people are delaying having children, they’re waiting till later. And that is the one common denominator across the board right now. So I love how you’re bringing out if we have God’s perspective on children and understanding that marriage and children go together. And this I, I just want to, yeah, bring this point up too. If you want to be married but don’t want children, we’re going to go back to that earlier question, you know, find out why that is. And if you’re looking for a man who doesn’t want children, you just want to be married. You know, obviously there are the the older couples getting married where that’s not going to be a reality unless they pursue adoption or something of that nature. But you should recognize that those do go hand in hand in the Lord’s plan for family. So you should have a heart that, once that and and once the the Lord’s will and that.
Yeah, definitely. My husband will say sometimes in regards to having multiple children or having a child when you’re older. I’ve never yet met an older person that said, I wish we didn’t have that last child or I wish we didn’t have so many children. No, you love the children. They’re the best thing. My mom, it rings in my head all the time when my mom’s sayings as she was raising her family because she was a a very successful math major, worked for IBM and computers before she had children. And she said that having her children was the best thing she ever did and the oldest of 6. So she, you know, poured herself into us once we came along. And I think about that often and just other similar sayings that, you know, it’s it’s definitely going to chip away at your selfishness and lots of the character flies. You know, being parents is definitely sanctifying. But isn’t that what our goal is anyway? So it’s worth it and. You know, you talk to any successful business person or in the world even, and you ask them their greatest accomplishments or most fulfilling part of their lives, and it’s almost always their children and their family. Not the money they’ve made, the companies they’ve built. It’s the relationships and their family and, and you, you recognize that that’s what’s important in life.
You know, my parents were not in a place financially to have more children. They had three children. And six years later, they were deciding to turn that over to the Lord, deciding if they should have more. But they were, they were in a little bit of debt, I believe, at that time. And so they prayed and they said, OK, Lord, we think this is what we should do. We think we should surrender this area to you and decide, let you decide the size of our family. But we have this debt. And if you want us to to go this route, would you help us pay off this debt? And I think it was like within a week, a check came in the mail that covered completely the the amount of the debt that they needed to pay. And they just took that as the Lord just giving his stamp of approval that he, he wanted them to have more children. I’m part of the second round of kids. Dan, here you are, Christi. I know so very thankful that they made that decision. And I think John Piper and his wife have a similar story. He was in Germany doing his doctorate and they, you know, technically couldn’t afford to have children at that point, but they prayed about it and the Lord financially. Like within the same week provided their finances and and just gave them the confidence to move forward. So yeah, if you look at all the stats of like how much a child costs in the first year and it’s a lot. But you don’t have to do all the bells and whistles and all the newfangled toys and, you know, you can make it work. I mean, I’ve known so many families that their baby slept in the bottom drawer of a dresser instead of a crib. And so, yeah. And it’s a, it’s a definitely a step of faith. But again, you are, by taking that step, you are honoring the Lord and you are loving what he loves and he will give you the grace and yeah, just help provide for your family in that way. And my family got to see that over and over, not just that one check, but so many times that the Lord met our needs. And my parents had four kids in 5 1/2 years, like I said. And so no a lot of expenses and needs, but God provided for us all along the way. And my parents are very thankful that they had those children. I was going to say, looking back to that time as as their children are grown now, I’m sure that they many times were so thankful that they opened their hearts to more blessing. Yes, children are wealth, and we have to think of it that way and think of it in the way God does.
So for someone who’s getting older, a woman who’s getting older, she desires to have her own biological children and maybe she has the means and the finances to consider freezing her eggs. What should she consider before a decision like that? Are there any maybe moral issues surrounding that? It’s not something I’ve ever thought through, but I would love to hear if that’s something you have wisdom on.
Yes. I don’t have a whole lot of medical wisdom on this, but I would just say any woman who’s considering freezing her eggs, why? What is the reason? Because one of the big reasons these days for freezing eggs. And I’m not saying that your audience would fit into this category, but when you look it up, the reasons are to delay motherhood and to a more convenient time in life or things like that. And I would say that’s not a wise reason to freeze eggs. And your audience would probably not be, you know, in that category. But for the woman who’s getting older and wondering about fertility, I would just kind of go back to some things we’ve talked about in trusting the Lord. Mainly, you know, if he wants you to get married and have children, he’s, he can easily do that in in the case where you would imagine that he would want you to freeze your eggs so that you can one day have biological children. I would spend a lot of time in prayer about that and just ask the Lord to, to show you, you know, affirm that to you. It’s not something you really find in Scripture other than in principle of just trusting him to provide.
So if this is something that just is really on your heart, maybe pray about the finances for it. Pray for, you know, you know, maybe the Christian Doctor Who understands your ethics to help you through that or, you know, certain things that would confirm to you and affirm to you the the wisdom in that choice. It is very costly. It does involve you taking hormone alternate, you know it, it just messes with your hormones to make you get all those eggs ready to be harvested. Then you have the procedure, then you have the storage of them. You know the annual fee for storing them. You know it’s what like 20 to 30,000 would be an average of actually succeeding at storing eggs and then for for however long you want to store them for, that’s an annual fee. But, and then when the time comes to actually use the eggs, generally you would need to go through an IVF treatment, which is another big medical thing and expense to, to, to become pregnant. So I’m not saying that there is not a time when that could be a wise decision for somebody who feels very strongly the Lord wants her to have biological children and she has a medical condition where this would be what everybody’s pointing to, You know, then I would allow for God to lead in that. But generally speaking, I think it risks taking things into our own hands and trying to play God in a sense where, oh, I’m, I want to have children, biological children, but I might be getting too old. I’m not sure. Maybe I should save them. You know, we’ve just talked a lot about God providing and entrusting his plan and his will for our lives. So I would be hesitant to think that for the healthy woman that this would come into play.
Yeah. And I just think we we can think we have a measure of control, but there are so many other factors in pregnancy despite, you know, just having healthy eggs. So just keeping that in mind. This is not the one factor that is going to make the difference between you having children or not having children. There could be many other. You could go through the IVF treatments and that could not work. I’ve known people who’ve experienced that. So, yeah. And I, I mean, I would, I think it would be the rare case where a single woman would have the financial means to do that because that is, that is quite, a, quite a cost. I would say it probably better use of your money to put it towards adoption or something of that nature when you can make that decision with a spouse someday. Yeah, because the IVF procedure when the time would come would involve your husband as well and lots of finances and and possible failure. You know, IVF fails a lot of the time. So it’s something I’d be very cautious, very hesitant to recommend. And like you said, just maybe the finances that would have gone into this would be used wiser later on if the Lord does the bless with children, which extremes example there, Sarah, right. Yeah, maybe when she was way too old. So I just don’t know what the Lord will do. So it comes back to trusting him.
Now for those listening who are saying I’m I’m already passed childbearing years and I’ve kind of walked through that death of a dream of having my own biological children, what encouragement and comfort can you offer them? And just how do you trust the Lord with those fears?
Yes, it would be a daily committing to him that we do with all of our fears, right, with any fear that persists. We have the daily come to him, committed to him and verbally, you know, trust his sovereignty, right? We need we need frequent reminders of our place and of his place. So just that bending the knee to his will, even when it’s hard and to realize that his plan is the best plan if we are if we are beyond childbearing years and we haven’t been able to have children. I’m sure by that point there’s been a lot of working through this already. And just you know, the one of the best ways to find fulfillment and joy is to serve others right and to not dwell on our own problems or trials. So pouring into other children would be one way that maybe God has for you to be around children, be blessed by children and to have children in your life. So, you know, if you are a single woman or maybe even a married woman who wasn’t able to have children, maybe there’s other children that you can be a blessing in their lives. You know, helping other moms of large families or children that don’t have a solid, you know, parent situation at home or your nieces and nephews. There’s so many different avenues for being in the lives of other children and blessing them. So that’s, that’s one thought. Also, obviously Foster and adopt so many babies and children that need loving homes. So that would be, you know, if God would lead you in that. There’s a real need for that. And just to realize that in each stage of life, we have to trust God. So whether you have lots of children or you have children needing to trust God in that, as we already mentioned, and for the day-to-day, there’s so many just sleepless nights and difficult stretching times that come with being a mom. And so whether you have the children where you don’t have the children, we have to ask the Lord for his grace for that day and for that situation, you know, frequently and all the time. So just to constantly to the Lord.
Well, and I was going to just say like, it’s OK to grieve. You know, there’s the verse we grieve, but not without hope. You know, so doesn’t mean that, you know, Christians don’t grieve. We feel that pain, but we know where to take that pain and we know where to look for comfort. And so I would just one thing I was thinking about in relation to this question is that you should still seek and strive to cultivate the ability to rejoice with those who rejoice when other people are having children around you or when you’re going to baby showers. Don’t shy away from that. I think you it can be an opportunity that you could use their joy to draw attention to your suffering. It doesn’t mean that you won’t feel that stab in your heart when you attend that baby shower. You know where you were going to feel that kind of that mixture of joy and sorrow. But it does mean that you’re not growing bitter, that you are not trying to draw attention to your suffering. So there’s always going to be disappointments and discouragements in life. And it’s how we interact with those and handle those and how we ultimately see the Lord’s sovereignty in it and his. It’s still His Plan A for our life and submitting to that. The girl that I mentioned who got married and she’s the oldest daughter in this family of 15 or more children. And then she and her husband have not been able to have children. So she is frequently hearing the announcement of her sister or sister-in-law being pregnant because there are so many of them are having babies now. And then the birth, the next birth, the next baby to meet. So she’s in that situation and she shares how she had to really struggle through that and how grief was a part of that. Just allowing herself to grieve and to be sad that she wasn’t able to have children. But then moving past that and really just hanging on to the Lord’s will and the Lord’s sovereignty in her life and, and allowing him to give her the peace in that and the freedom to rejoice with her sisters when they have a new baby. So she has a neat testimony about that. I have a thing here that is helpful in this situation, as in any situation, just to remember that God’s will is what we would have chosen if we knew all the facts. Somebody put it. So, you know, when we get to heaven in the hindsight, we’ll look back and see the Lord’s wisdom in all the decisions that he’s, you know, made for our lives and how he’s LED us and that he is all wise. That is so important to remember and just to know that he he knows everything. We can trust him, continue to trust him when we don’t see the whole plan and we can rest in that. I often think of that he is our our refuge with all the unanswered questions, with the pain. And often times, you know, it’s the pain, the greatest sorrows and pains of life that make us lean into him so closely and walk with him so closely. And he ultimately is the best gift. You know, he can give us gifts, but himself he gives us and he gives us an opportunity in those moments to experience him and his comfort at new levels. So sometimes he has to to RIP our heart in order to insert himself more deeply. But for all of eternity, we will be thankful for that, thankful for the the spiritual growth and for the love that he is planting there for himself.
So Donna, so, so comforting and encouraging to to be reminded of those truths. I just appreciate your sharing your experience with me and the listeners and just helping us to keep our minds on the important things and on things above and trusting God with if he allows children or not, and just seeking to be submissive to his will in our lives. So appreciate your time today. It was a joy to have you on.
Thank you, Christi. I’ll just mention one book if that’s OK, in case anybody wants to dig deeper into natural ways to help your fertility or that whole subject. There is a book called Taking Charge of your Fertility that has been highly recommended and has a lot of good reviews, Amazon. So but it’s by Tony Weschler, but Taking Charge of your fertility, just in case anyone’s further interested in that. But thank you for the opportunity and for having me on and, and I just pray many blessings on all your audience.